Depressed Spuffy fan here...
.. can someone explain to me why, after all these years, I keep reading fandom opinions on Spuffy, googling old and new discussions, while knowing perfectly fine that all I ever get from that is pain and depression and hopelessness, since 90% of the posts I find out there are negative, and tend to put down, denigrate and demeane the whole Spuffy
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I thought that this was a sort of romantic image, the two of them. We actually did it with real fire but their hands were all gelled up and you could tell, so this was added CGI, and looks beautiful. I thought it was a nice comment on their relationship. But what I basically told them was "Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him. Love her when you say she doesn't love you. Forget about the crumbling world. For that period of time it doesn't exist."
If someone is there for you, is asking nothing of you and has loved you faithfully and unconditionally for all those years, and if that person is the one that you turn to for comfort and support when you are at your most vulnerable, and if they give you that comfort and support unconditionally asking nothing in return, then whether you acknowledge it or not, that is love, so yes, Buffy loved Spike. -- Jane Espenson
- [David Fury] thinks Buffy was in love with ( ... )
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I know all those quotes, and they help when I start thinking that I'm completely delusional about the ship. Still, the creators can shout it until they are blue in the face and it won't change anyone's opinion. In the end they created a story that they intended to be a romance, and a large portion of the fanbase deny it to this day.
It is certainly due to people's bias, but they also gave them enough element to persist in their bias.
But yes, haters gonna hate is the best attitude, which I usually try to adopt... unless I'm in a blue mood like I was when I wrote this post! :(
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The thing is, a chunk of people will always insist on seeing things their own way, and there's nothing we can do. And yes, there is basis in the show to see things their way - and their bias plays into that. (Bias is a very strong thing - I've seen people complain that Moffat is a misogynist because he writes too many strong female characters. Seriously.)
When it comes to fandom, people don't work on logic, and anyone can find support for anything they want. Heck, I could write meta right now about how the whole thing is actually about cheese.
Was Spuffy subversive and abusive and difficult? Yes. And that's why I love it. It generated strong feelings, it was unpredictable and dangerous. We touched the fire, and it burned...
I'll end by quoting Anna again, because she says it best:
Besides, I suspect Buffy/Angel shippers either have a different concept of love to mine, or a different concept ( ... )
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O_° *is confused* I don't particularly like Moffat and his DW, but that seriously doesn't make sense!!
Was Spuffy subversive and abusive and difficult? Yes. And that's why I love it. It generated strong feelings, it was unpredictable and dangerous. We touched the fire, and it burned...
<3 <3
And again, my problem is not Bangels... but the people who don't have a horse in this race, who don't tend to hate Spuffy as much as some shippers of other couples do, but struggle to see a romance, season 7 be damned. But whatever, indeed!! Sometimes the best pieces of art are not comprehended by the mob!! :p ;)
(And goodness knows I wouldn't have spent *years* digging into that 'ship if it wasn't worth it! *g*)
Cerainly not... how terrible would it be to realize that we have wasted all these years and energy into ot? LOL ;)
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People with biases/agendas rarely do... (Moffat Who is my favourite thing in the world, so I'm hardly unbiased myself, but I manage to love Rusty-Who too!)
And again, my problem is not Bangels... but the people who don't have a horse in this race, who don't tend to hate Spuffy as much as some shippers of other couples do, but struggle to see a romance, season 7 be damned.I'm reminded of Orson Welles' The Magnificent Ambersons. When it was first shown to selected audiences before general release 9/10 of the people hated the ending. The other 10% thought it was the best film they'd ever seen. The studio subsequently changed the ending to a tacked-on Happy Ending, and it is now considered to be one of the greatest films that never was. So, um, yeah. Screw the mob ( ... )
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Congrats on your beautiful marriage!!
We agree on Spuffy, Spangel and Jack/Ianto... we don't agree on Doctor/River (which I despise with the force of a thousand suns) but let's ignore it and never speak about it and just get along!! ;) :D
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And thank you! :)
And... interesting. Doctor/River is pretty much perfect imho (complex and difficult, but without a lot of the problems that beset my other OTPs - and the metaphors, dear GOD the metaphors! ♥), yet there are strange people who cannot see the beauty at all...
::insert RTD gif::
(Just out of interest, do you ship Doctor/Master? I somehow left it off my list.)
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I can't explain why I hate River so much, but she has almost turned me off DW in season 6.
I'm not a great shipper when it comes to DW, but if I have to choose I guess I lean towards Rose/Doctor, which is the only pairing that gives me feels (together with Amy/Rory, I guess).
I could get behind Doctor/Master, but my favourite M/M DW ship is Jack/Doctor.
(Dammit, I wanted a DW icon, but I have none. Stupid 15 icons limit)
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I asked about Doctor/Master, since the Doctor/River is v. similar, except River isn't ~Evil.
ANYWAY. Re. comments further down, then I have always refused to accept the comics as canon. They're A continuation, not THE. (See lengthy essay here - it's not whether I like the story or not (I ADORED Lynch's Spike comics), it's the change in medium. Oh, and I heartily despise (and now ignore) the comics and can easily explain why, although I am very, very polite in the essay.)
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No, explaining wouldn't work, because the things we like don't respond to rationality. Some things either work for you or don't. River, River/Doctor and Moffat's Who in general don't work for me, even thought there are moments of sheer brilliance. And maybe one day I'll rewatch and I'll revaluate and I'll grow a new appreciation for them! *crosses fingers* Afterall, I really liked season 5...
I'm more than happy to consider the comics not canon or just A continuation. Where can I sign for that? LOL
I'm convinced that while the show will live forever no one will remember that the comics were even made in a few years.
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S6 is very... concentrated dense/layered, which made it difficult viewing. And I think a lot of the consequences are still to come. (I have a feeling that all of Moffat Who will turn out to be one long story/arc, and we're currently just seeing a few of the pieces - once the picture is complete a lot of things will fall into place. I have, uh, a lot of meta.)
I'm more than happy to consider the comics not canon or just A continuation. Where can I sign for that? LOL
My LJ. I'm the secret ring leader. Follow this tag:
(i was paid to read) s8
It comes complete with a Dancing John Barrowman. In triplicate. :D
ETA: Thank you for the friending btw. I should warn you that I don't post about Buffy very often anymore, but feel free to raid my memories - there's tons of stuff there. Oh and if you get tired of my Moffat squee, by all means defriend again, no harsh feelings. <3 (Edited twice ( ... )
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I have lurked quietly and stealthily in fandom for a long time, so I already knew you and your journal (like I know most of the Spuffy people on LJ). I will certainly raid your memories!! :)
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