Depressed Spuffy fan here...
.. can someone explain to me why, after all these years, I keep reading fandom opinions on Spuffy, googling old and new discussions, while knowing perfectly fine that all I ever get from that is pain and depression and hopelessness, since 90% of the posts I find out there are negative, and tend to put down, denigrate and demeane the whole Spuffy story?
Like this nice opinion I've just read on a Buffy-Boards thread dealing with the topic of James Marsters saying at a convention that Buffy/Angel were made to be together, and that Spike was a "beautiful mistake" that should never have happened (geez, James... really not helping. *rolls eyes* )
"No, because Angel clearly wasn't written that way. Buffy & Angel being destined/true love etc. was. Most TV shows have the first love of the main character be the true love or have them written as if they were destined to be together no matter how many times they break up or fight. Ross and Rachel, JD and Elliot the two from Boy Meets World etc. It's simply because Angel was the first to come along. It has nothing to do with her being young.
I can't believe there's "Spuffy" fans in the first place. At least male "Spuffy" fans older than 20 and older women. Spike did the classic taking advantage of a emotionally broken or upset girl trick by saying he'll be there for her all while sneaking in some mean comments to lower her self esteem.
Spike be littled Buffy every chance he got alone with her to make her sleep with him. Constantly telling her she didn't belong and should be in the dark with him. Guys do it in bars on the "lonely hot girl" all the time. Older women and men should have seen through him right away.
PRE-THE BODY Buffy wouldn't have touched Spike in a million years. I'm not talking just sex. I'm talking kisses, hugs, hell even give the time of day. In fact I just looked up Buffy wiki to see the episode order and two episodes before "The Body" was "Crush" where Buffy found out about Spike's crush and then blocked him off and cut him off from her completely. Then BOOM! Two episodes later Joyce dies and the start of Buffy's deep depression starts, which was already starting to develop because of the big break up with Riley and finding out Dawn was never really her sister with the added stress of being trusted into the "mother figure" role even before Joyce died.
Since her mother's death Buffy was never the same happy person again and yet all Spike could get in season 5 was a thank you kiss.
Spike spent nearly every second he got with an EXTREMELY depressed back-from-the-dead-life-has-gone-to-Hell Buffy belittling her and telling her she didn't belong with her friends and the others. He manipulated constantly untill she was emotionally broken enough to sleep with him. Even after he finally got her in bed he continued to berate her and take advantage of her weakened mental state.
Then Buffy starts getting happy again, her life isn't so bad and things are starting to go well. She finds out Spike was the one with the demon eggs and came to her senses that they can't keep sleeping together so she dumps him. What does Spike do? He tries to rape her!
Season 7 comes along and a souled Spike comes back to Sunnydale where a happy(ish) Buffy has realized life can be good again even with the First trying to kill everyone Buffy was thinking positively until the end of the show where she got kicked out of the house and had to sleep somewhere else. To which Spike came to speak to her. Do I think souled Spike was up to the same dirty tricks he used in season 5 and season 6? I think Spike knew he had no chance to be with Buffy and was hoping he could at some point become her friend.
Which is what happened. The only TWO real "Spuffy" moments in season 7 are completely debatable. The scene where Buffy goes down to the basement to sleep with Spike and Buffy telling Spike she loved him.
With the scene in the basement "Spuffy" fans sometimes say they slept together. No, you don't have sex with someone and then put back on every item of clothing you had on before had. That's when excuses like "someone might have came down stairs etc." come in, but like I said. It's debatable because nothing is ever seen.
The next is the "I love you" which "Spuffies" cling to for dear life because they're constantly defending it from everyone into other relationships on the show. Do I believe Spike loved Buffy in season 7? I believe he wanted to be with her, but him sleeping with Harm as soon as he could feel again makes me think he just lusted after Buffy because he couldn't have her. People mistake love for lust a lot.
Buffy probably would have removed Spike from her life for good after the sex bot Buffybot thing, but it was two episodes since Joyce's death and one episode since "Forever" and Buffy's whole depression thing had started.
A mentally healthy pre-The Body Buffy would never (and never did outside of Willow's magic or Spike's dreams) do anything sexual or romantic with Spike."
°_° Very extreme negative view, of a kind that unfortunately I see more often than I'd like.
Or a very long thread on tv.com I was reading the other day, where literally everyone (except a few) was of the opinion that Buffy in the end cared for Spike as a friend, but never loved him romantically.
I understand it from Bangel shippers, so I mostly don't care about what they say; it's the more casual/neutral viewers' view that disturbs me.
In general it seems that no one except Spuffy shippers saw what we saw, I'm starting to think that either we were all delusional and full of wishful-thinking and everyone else is right (and the comics certainly give weight to that option, so far), or... we are more clever and got what the show/writers were doing in their obscure and very ambiguous way?
I don't know, I shouldn't care, but this gets to me every time. That's why I need so badly a confirmation in text of Buffy's feelings for Spike, something that for once isn't refutable by those who wish to refute it. I'm so tired of the opaqueness, and of reading between the lines...
Mainly... how do you learn not to wander around the internet and stick to like-minded people areas only?? Sometimes I'm just exploding with love for Spuffy and then I make the mistake of going out there and I end up crushed... I get over it, and then I do it all over again.
Grrr.. I'm so frustrated! *wants to move on* Please excuse these depressed ramblings.
Like this nice opinion I've just read on a Buffy-Boards thread dealing with the topic of James Marsters saying at a convention that Buffy/Angel were made to be together, and that Spike was a "beautiful mistake" that should never have happened (geez, James... really not helping. *rolls eyes* )
"No, because Angel clearly wasn't written that way. Buffy & Angel being destined/true love etc. was. Most TV shows have the first love of the main character be the true love or have them written as if they were destined to be together no matter how many times they break up or fight. Ross and Rachel, JD and Elliot the two from Boy Meets World etc. It's simply because Angel was the first to come along. It has nothing to do with her being young.
I can't believe there's "Spuffy" fans in the first place. At least male "Spuffy" fans older than 20 and older women. Spike did the classic taking advantage of a emotionally broken or upset girl trick by saying he'll be there for her all while sneaking in some mean comments to lower her self esteem.
Spike be littled Buffy every chance he got alone with her to make her sleep with him. Constantly telling her she didn't belong and should be in the dark with him. Guys do it in bars on the "lonely hot girl" all the time. Older women and men should have seen through him right away.
PRE-THE BODY Buffy wouldn't have touched Spike in a million years. I'm not talking just sex. I'm talking kisses, hugs, hell even give the time of day. In fact I just looked up Buffy wiki to see the episode order and two episodes before "The Body" was "Crush" where Buffy found out about Spike's crush and then blocked him off and cut him off from her completely. Then BOOM! Two episodes later Joyce dies and the start of Buffy's deep depression starts, which was already starting to develop because of the big break up with Riley and finding out Dawn was never really her sister with the added stress of being trusted into the "mother figure" role even before Joyce died.
Since her mother's death Buffy was never the same happy person again and yet all Spike could get in season 5 was a thank you kiss.
Spike spent nearly every second he got with an EXTREMELY depressed back-from-the-dead-life-has-gone-to-Hell Buffy belittling her and telling her she didn't belong with her friends and the others. He manipulated constantly untill she was emotionally broken enough to sleep with him. Even after he finally got her in bed he continued to berate her and take advantage of her weakened mental state.
Then Buffy starts getting happy again, her life isn't so bad and things are starting to go well. She finds out Spike was the one with the demon eggs and came to her senses that they can't keep sleeping together so she dumps him. What does Spike do? He tries to rape her!
Season 7 comes along and a souled Spike comes back to Sunnydale where a happy(ish) Buffy has realized life can be good again even with the First trying to kill everyone Buffy was thinking positively until the end of the show where she got kicked out of the house and had to sleep somewhere else. To which Spike came to speak to her. Do I think souled Spike was up to the same dirty tricks he used in season 5 and season 6? I think Spike knew he had no chance to be with Buffy and was hoping he could at some point become her friend.
Which is what happened. The only TWO real "Spuffy" moments in season 7 are completely debatable. The scene where Buffy goes down to the basement to sleep with Spike and Buffy telling Spike she loved him.
With the scene in the basement "Spuffy" fans sometimes say they slept together. No, you don't have sex with someone and then put back on every item of clothing you had on before had. That's when excuses like "someone might have came down stairs etc." come in, but like I said. It's debatable because nothing is ever seen.
The next is the "I love you" which "Spuffies" cling to for dear life because they're constantly defending it from everyone into other relationships on the show. Do I believe Spike loved Buffy in season 7? I believe he wanted to be with her, but him sleeping with Harm as soon as he could feel again makes me think he just lusted after Buffy because he couldn't have her. People mistake love for lust a lot.
Buffy probably would have removed Spike from her life for good after the sex bot Buffybot thing, but it was two episodes since Joyce's death and one episode since "Forever" and Buffy's whole depression thing had started.
A mentally healthy pre-The Body Buffy would never (and never did outside of Willow's magic or Spike's dreams) do anything sexual or romantic with Spike."
°_° Very extreme negative view, of a kind that unfortunately I see more often than I'd like.
Or a very long thread on tv.com I was reading the other day, where literally everyone (except a few) was of the opinion that Buffy in the end cared for Spike as a friend, but never loved him romantically.
I understand it from Bangel shippers, so I mostly don't care about what they say; it's the more casual/neutral viewers' view that disturbs me.
In general it seems that no one except Spuffy shippers saw what we saw, I'm starting to think that either we were all delusional and full of wishful-thinking and everyone else is right (and the comics certainly give weight to that option, so far), or... we are more clever and got what the show/writers were doing in their obscure and very ambiguous way?
I don't know, I shouldn't care, but this gets to me every time. That's why I need so badly a confirmation in text of Buffy's feelings for Spike, something that for once isn't refutable by those who wish to refute it. I'm so tired of the opaqueness, and of reading between the lines...
Mainly... how do you learn not to wander around the internet and stick to like-minded people areas only?? Sometimes I'm just exploding with love for Spuffy and then I make the mistake of going out there and I end up crushed... I get over it, and then I do it all over again.
Grrr.. I'm so frustrated! *wants to move on* Please excuse these depressed ramblings.