Depressed Spuffy fan here...
.. can someone explain to me why, after all these years, I keep reading fandom opinions on Spuffy, googling old and new discussions, while knowing perfectly fine that all I ever get from that is pain and depression and hopelessness, since 90% of the posts I find out there are negative, and tend to put down, denigrate and demeane the whole Spuffy
( Read more... )
The thing is, a chunk of people will always insist on seeing things their own way, and there's nothing we can do. And yes, there is basis in the show to see things their way - and their bias plays into that. (Bias is a very strong thing - I've seen people complain that Moffat is a misogynist because he writes too many strong female characters. Seriously.)
When it comes to fandom, people don't work on logic, and anyone can find support for anything they want. Heck, I could write meta right now about how the whole thing is actually about cheese.
Was Spuffy subversive and abusive and difficult? Yes. And that's why I love it. It generated strong feelings, it was unpredictable and dangerous. We touched the fire, and it burned...
I'll end by quoting Anna again, because she says it best:
Besides, I suspect Buffy/Angel shippers either have a different concept of love to mine, or a different concept of what they want from a fictional love story. I can't argue with that.
Leave 'em to it. Spuffy is a bit like one of those 3D pictures... looked at from the wrong angle, it's just a mess - but if you concentrate the most amazing picture springs out at you as if by magic. ♥
(And goodness knows I wouldn't have spent *years* digging into that 'ship if it wasn't worth it! *g*)
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O_° *is confused* I don't particularly like Moffat and his DW, but that seriously doesn't make sense!!
Was Spuffy subversive and abusive and difficult? Yes. And that's why I love it. It generated strong feelings, it was unpredictable and dangerous. We touched the fire, and it burned...
<3 <3
And again, my problem is not Bangels... but the people who don't have a horse in this race, who don't tend to hate Spuffy as much as some shippers of other couples do, but struggle to see a romance, season 7 be damned. But whatever, indeed!! Sometimes the best pieces of art are not comprehended by the mob!! :p ;)
(And goodness knows I wouldn't have spent *years* digging into that 'ship if it wasn't worth it! *g*)
Cerainly not... how terrible would it be to realize that we have wasted all these years and energy into ot? LOL ;)
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People with biases/agendas rarely do... (Moffat Who is my favourite thing in the world, so I'm hardly unbiased myself, but I manage to love Rusty-Who too!)
And again, my problem is not Bangels... but the people who don't have a horse in this race, who don't tend to hate Spuffy as much as some shippers of other couples do, but struggle to see a romance, season 7 be damned.
I'm reminded of Orson Welles' The Magnificent Ambersons. When it was first shown to selected audiences before general release 9/10 of the people hated the ending. The other 10% thought it was the best film they'd ever seen. The studio subsequently changed the ending to a tacked-on Happy Ending, and it is now considered to be one of the greatest films that never was. So, um, yeah. Screw the mob! ;)
And re. a comment further down, then *I* am married to my first love. There's kind of a history of Love at First Sight in my family, so I've done that whole thing. Including getting married age 20 (he was 19) and still being happy now 15 years later, with 3 kids and everything. Which might be why stories about First Love do very little for me - that part is transient. What interests me is when the going gets tough, that dynamic that only comes after you've been through hell/several years together... Hence me shipping Spuffy and Spangel and Jack/Ianto and Doctor/River - they all hit exactly the same kink. (The basic rule is: Put them in an empty room together and just watch them bounce off each other. Buffy/Angel - or Ten/Rose - are terribly sweet & pretty, but they don't DO anything. Also, there's no snark. Snark is very important.)
/rambling
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Congrats on your beautiful marriage!!
We agree on Spuffy, Spangel and Jack/Ianto... we don't agree on Doctor/River (which I despise with the force of a thousand suns) but let's ignore it and never speak about it and just get along!! ;) :D
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And thank you! :)
And... interesting. Doctor/River is pretty much perfect imho (complex and difficult, but without a lot of the problems that beset my other OTPs - and the metaphors, dear GOD the metaphors! ♥), yet there are strange people who cannot see the beauty at all...
::insert RTD gif::
(Just out of interest, do you ship Doctor/Master? I somehow left it off my list.)
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I can't explain why I hate River so much, but she has almost turned me off DW in season 6.
I'm not a great shipper when it comes to DW, but if I have to choose I guess I lean towards Rose/Doctor, which is the only pairing that gives me feels (together with Amy/Rory, I guess).
I could get behind Doctor/Master, but my favourite M/M DW ship is Jack/Doctor.
(Dammit, I wanted a DW icon, but I have none. Stupid 15 icons limit)
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I asked about Doctor/Master, since the Doctor/River is v. similar, except River isn't ~Evil.
ANYWAY. Re. comments further down, then I have always refused to accept the comics as canon. They're A continuation, not THE. (See lengthy essay here - it's not whether I like the story or not (I ADORED Lynch's Spike comics), it's the change in medium. Oh, and I heartily despise (and now ignore) the comics and can easily explain why, although I am very, very polite in the essay.)
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No, explaining wouldn't work, because the things we like don't respond to rationality. Some things either work for you or don't. River, River/Doctor and Moffat's Who in general don't work for me, even thought there are moments of sheer brilliance. And maybe one day I'll rewatch and I'll revaluate and I'll grow a new appreciation for them! *crosses fingers* Afterall, I really liked season 5...
I'm more than happy to consider the comics not canon or just A continuation. Where can I sign for that? LOL
I'm convinced that while the show will live forever no one will remember that the comics were even made in a few years.
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S6 is very... concentrated dense/layered, which made it difficult viewing. And I think a lot of the consequences are still to come. (I have a feeling that all of Moffat Who will turn out to be one long story/arc, and we're currently just seeing a few of the pieces - once the picture is complete a lot of things will fall into place. I have, uh, a lot of meta.)
I'm more than happy to consider the comics not canon or just A continuation. Where can I sign for that? LOL
My LJ. I'm the secret ring leader. Follow this tag:
(i was paid to read) s8
It comes complete with a Dancing John Barrowman. In triplicate. :D
ETA: Thank you for the friending btw. I should warn you that I don't post about Buffy very often anymore, but feel free to raid my memories - there's tons of stuff there. Oh and if you get tired of my Moffat squee, by all means defriend again, no harsh feelings. <3 (Edited twice because of accidental deleting of half my comment...)
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I have lurked quietly and stealthily in fandom for a long time, so I already knew you and your journal (like I know most of the Spuffy people on LJ). I will certainly raid your memories!! :)
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