The usual when-did-I-ovulate post

[elettaria]

My charts may be seen here. The question is whether I ovulated on CD15 or CD18. I'm looking mainly at the thermal shift, as my other data aren't too reliable. I have a copper IUD, which means that I get a lot of EW. It always continues for a day or so after ovulation, and may continue throughout my luteal phase. I've only recently begun

Comments

[th3_unicorn]

The problem with your progesterone deficiency might very well be the copper itself. I'm afraid we won't be able to tell when ovulation exactly occurred in this cycle, as you had a Slow Rise. If you were charting for birth control, we'd have to go with the latest date possible, which is CD 19, but that may not be realistic. Sometimes unfortunately it's just not possible to pinpoint ovulation.

One thing your chart makes me worry about is all that spotting. Have you had it checked out? You're not supposed to be spotting for so long, even around ovulation time.

[elettaria]

I'm thinking I might have to wait and see what the pattern is like for the next few months. I'm just trying to work out whether the earlier thermal shift is valid with that slow rise. Do you have any idea how useful it is to look at the coverline for previous charts?

The amount of copper released by an IUD is so minuscule that it shouldn't affect hormones; it's less than the copper you'll get from tap water, for instance. I asked about this umpteen times, as the PMS started not long after getting the IUD put in. However, this also coincides with the start of a relationship, different behaviour as a result, and sudden weight gain (which was never explained - for heaven's sake, I was exercising more!). I had a copper IUD previously for over two years and didn't get PMS or weight gain then, so I'm taking their word for it that the IUD is unrelated to either. My money's on the weight gain setting off the PMS, and I may end up taking a migraine preventative which can cause weight loss; again, about to be discussed with my doctor.

[th3_unicorn]

The coverline is just a visual tool that is helpful in the cycle to determine the temp shift, but as the average temperature in each phase can vary between cycles, then the coverline as well has little meaning in itself and comparing it between cycles cannot offer much info.

I don't have the references with me, but I know for a fact that the copper in the IUD can very well cause systemic reactions. That is, the copper-zync imbalance it creates can be really huge, and cause many systemic symptoms and it's known that vitamin and oligoelement deficiencies are linked to progesterone deficiency. I'm sorry that your case was dismissed like that, but you really were given the wrong info on that.
Try the Aprhodite Women's Health forum, it has heaps of information about this kind of effect of the copper IUD.

[elettaria]

I looked up the copper/zinc thing last time this was brought up (and spent a day with a copper penny taped to my wrist to check for allergies!), and apart from a couple of posts in that forum where people guessed that their copper IUD was causing X problems, there was no proof anywhere and it seems to be an urban myth. I took extra zinc for a while anyway, until my herbalist pointed out that it was probably what was causing certain symptoms (and she appeared to be right, so I took the zinc back down to RDA levels). IUDs really do release less copper per day than you get from tap water. There's the usual problem when discussing side effects with contraception: anecdotal reports on the internet are often highly skewed, particularly towards the negative (getting info on Cerazette was a nightmare, as the research all said it was wonderful and the posts in forums all said it was horrific), and much of the time women are actually adjusting to coming off their previous method of contraception and/or lifestyle changes

[elettaria]

By the way, I'm now starting to look up research on this sort of thing. At the moment the findings seem to be that levels of copper are elevated (think it might just be locally, in which case of course they're elevated, that's how it works), but levels of zinc are not reduced, although there was a rather ambiguous study done on Nigerian women where they weren't sure. There also seems to be some research showing that copper IUDs inhibit prostaglandin metabolism which causes a decrease in luteal phase length, though I'm trying to find something written more recently than 1988. I'll keep hunting. I was planning to ask my GP if I could be tested for nutritional deficiencies anyway, as it's thought that ME sufferers don't absorb nutrients well.