The usual when-did-I-ovulate post

[elettaria]

My charts may be seen here. The question is whether I ovulated on CD15 or CD18. I'm looking mainly at the thermal shift, as my other data aren't too reliable. I have a copper IUD, which means that I get a lot of EW. It always continues for a day or so after ovulation, and may continue throughout my luteal phase. I've only recently begun

Comments

[th3_unicorn]

The problem with your progesterone deficiency might very well be the copper itself. I'm afraid we won't be able to tell when ovulation exactly occurred in this cycle, as you had a Slow Rise. If you were charting for birth control, we'd have to go with the latest date possible, which is CD 19, but that may not be realistic. Sometimes unfortunately it's just not possible to pinpoint ovulation.

One thing your chart makes me worry about is all that spotting. Have you had it checked out? You're not supposed to be spotting for so long, even around ovulation time.

[elettaria]

I'm thinking I might have to wait and see what the pattern is like for the next few months. I'm just trying to work out whether the earlier thermal shift is valid with that slow rise. Do you have any idea how useful it is to look at the coverline for previous charts?

The amount of copper released by an IUD is so minuscule that it shouldn't affect hormones; it's less than the copper you'll get from tap water, for instance. I asked about this umpteen times, as the PMS started not long after getting the IUD put in. However, this also coincides with the start of a relationship, different behaviour as a result, and sudden weight gain (which was never explained - for heaven's sake, I was exercising more!). I had a copper IUD previously for over two years and didn't get PMS or weight gain then, so I'm taking their word for it that the IUD is unrelated to either. My money's on the weight gain setting off the PMS, and I may end up taking a migraine preventative which can cause weight loss; again, about to be discussed with my doctor.

[th3_unicorn]

The coverline is just a visual tool that is helpful in the cycle to determine the temp shift, but as the average temperature in each phase can vary between cycles, then the coverline as well has little meaning in itself and comparing it between cycles cannot offer much info.

I don't have the references with me, but I know for a fact that the copper in the IUD can very well cause systemic reactions. That is, the copper-zync imbalance it creates can be really huge, and cause many systemic symptoms and it's known that vitamin and oligoelement deficiencies are linked to progesterone deficiency. I'm sorry that your case was dismissed like that, but you really were given the wrong info on that.
Try the Aprhodite Women's Health forum, it has heaps of information about this kind of effect of the copper IUD.

[elettaria]

I looked up the copper/zinc thing last time this was brought up (and spent a day with a copper penny taped to my wrist to check for allergies!), and apart from a couple of posts in that forum where people guessed that their copper IUD was causing X problems, there was no proof anywhere and it seems to be an urban myth. I took extra zinc for a while anyway, until my herbalist pointed out that it was probably what was causing certain symptoms (and she appeared to be right, so I took the zinc back down to RDA levels). IUDs really do release less copper per day than you get from tap water. There's the usual problem when discussing side effects with contraception: anecdotal reports on the internet are often highly skewed, particularly towards the negative (getting info on Cerazette was a nightmare, as the research all said it was wonderful and the posts in forums all said it was horrific), and much of the time women are actually adjusting to coming off their previous method of contraception and/or lifestyle changes

[supercarrot]

i'm kinda leaning toward day 18. (with the cervical position, and more toward the end of your egginess.)

have you tried B6 for the luteal phase thing?

[elettaria]

Yep, for quite a long time and at various doses. I was getting a 7-8 day luteal phase for a couple of charts at the start, which has stopped, but otherwise there's been no difference.

I'm leaning towards CD18 by now as well, although I'm still not wildly sure how good my CP interpretation is. I can't work out the openness one at all. Suddenly getting a 12 day LP would be great, but I doubt it would spring up that fast, and I do have 22 months of consistent LPs to compare it to.

[helixaspersa]

I think I'd incline towards day 18 as well. And almost definitely so if your period arrives tomorrow giving you an exact 9 day LP if it *was* day 18.

I sympathise, occasionally I have confusing slow-shifts like this too. Though this month my body is playing the annoying endlessly-deferred-ovulation-for-no-good-reason trick. Today is day 28 and I am getting fed up of it.

[elettaria]

If it's any consolation, last time my body pulled that trick on me, CD28 was when I finally ovulated.

I would just like to bitch in passing about how infuriating it is to have a medical condition that clearly responds strongly to sex hormones (there's just been another post in cfids_me about how pregnancy generally causes a miraculous remission; in contrast, the three types of progestogen-only contraception I've tried have made my condition much worse), but this aspect of it is, as far as I know, entirely unresearched. I'm sure my body's trying to tell me something, I just wish I could work out what it is.