Comments | ethrosdemon: (без темы)

ethrosdemon

(Untitled)

Mar 07, 2006 21:08

Is Supernatural the the dirtiest and coolest fandom ever? It certainly makes me do things I always thought I wouldn't. It feels sort of like being Jensen Ackles' girlfriend.

(Um, House? Craziest show of all time. WEISS! *omg, dies over and over again and wants to snuggle him in a way that betrays my evil ( Read more... )

cock rock is balls

Leave a comment

Back to all threads

unholyglee March 8 2006, 04:31:31 UTC

Something else I missed: The fact that Sam didn't even fucking ask if Dean was ok with any of this. Didn't ask if Dean wanted this. It was all "It's ok. I knew this would happen" and "You'll get used to it. You got used to this" and psychic wonder or not, I want to bitchslap Sam. I said it before, cunty. bastard.

maygra March 8 2006, 04:48:53 UTC

What, Dean couldn't say no? Stop? Don't?

::boggles::

unholyglee March 8 2006, 04:55:04 UTC

This Dean? The way she wrote him? Is completely defenseless against Sam. They can get into fights and beat the crap out of each other, but Dean has *never* been able to say no to Sam. It's just more pronounced now, especially in the last paragraph.

The way she has them written, if the genderswap had gone with Dean instead, he would have asked Sam several times if this is alright and are you sure this is what you want before Sam flipped them both over and told Dean to shut the hell up and get on with it. Sam never even extended that courtesy.

maygra March 8 2006, 04:58:53 UTC

I did not get that at all. Still don't.

wrenlet March 8 2006, 05:19:56 UTC

Really? 'Cause heck even I get that in some of these lines.

When Sam pressed against him, all curves and giving everywhere Dean rolled his head against the wall, which only made it easier for Sam to lick his neck.

When Sam followed him into the deserted rest stop men's room and stood behind him, pressed again his back and shoved his hand right down Dean's jeans, Dean braced both arms on the wall and let Sam jack him off.

Dean doesn't say no. But Sam takes more than asks.

*sniffle* And I maintain this ends well for no one. I play no favorites, man.

maygra March 8 2006, 05:32:56 UTC

Not disagreeing that Sam takes, goes for what he wants. Still not seeing a gag on Dean's mouth.

And this is different than what Dean did that apparently got this all started because...? Not saying Sam's right, just saying...(echoing) Dean's not saying no and he could.

I also agree that it doesn't end well for either of them.

wrenlet March 8 2006, 05:38:42 UTC

Dean really couldn't tell Sam no, and he didn't lie about that.

Sam kept assaulting him, and Dean kept falling further and further down the never-ending well of the sort of soul-deep fear that had no name.

If the difficulty is with Kassie's characterization of Dean, that's a separate issue. I'm going by what we have as text, and this dynamic is in the text.

maygra March 8 2006, 10:03:49 UTC

Don't think so -- just how we interpret the text.

although if this turns out to be part of the curse, she's even more brillkinat than I realized.

cocombat March 8 2006, 11:57:07 UTC

And this is different than what Dean did that apparently got this all started because...?

Eh? I think I missed something.
What are you referring to?

Y'know how people argue about the distinction between non-con and rape? And whether there really is one? (because it's got to be pretty blurry if there is...)
Anyway, the distinction I've seen made is between if one person said 'no' and the sex still happened, then it's rape, unless they 'enjoyed it' or later changed their mind, and apparently that's now non-con. Eh.
The other sort of non-con is where no one actually said no, but you get a kinda sick feeling in your belly because sure as hell at least one person never initiated it, and wouldn't have said 'Yes' if anyone had actually asked. And the reasons tend to range between emotional manipulation, or co-dependency, or other issues, or something, but it's got a disturbing wiggy feeling to it.

Now this? This particular writing of Sam/Dean ( ... )

maygra March 8 2006, 13:42:56 UTC

Pax if you want it, although I'm not mad, I'm just totally confused. I read through to the end and the whole time I'm watching Dean fall in love with his brother as a girl (as opposed to just loving his brother), and in the end we realize Sam's been in love all along, brother or no and missing, until then, that the in love part was really reserved for girl!Sam and not //Sam// and I just didn't see that take on it all.

so, yeah, if the overriding emotional push here is that Dean's in love and Sam's just after the sex, then I can see Sam being considered a manipulative and cruel, but that's not what I read or got out of this.

Eh? I think I missed something. What are you referring to?

He felt guilty for Sam getting punished for something that Dean had done, but he also didn't want to lose his dick--Sam didn't use his anyway.

I'm using Dean's assessment of how this got started rather than Sam's since in this interp (manipulative Sam) Sam's kind of an unreliable narrator.

Elsewhere I said that if this was ethrosdemon's take on how the curse ( ... )

ethrosdemon March 8 2006, 14:07:16 UTC

I thought a lot about interjecting on this thread an explaining myself, because the themes being discussed here are hardly one I can ingnore, but I'm not going to talk about my intent or what *I* think is going on here for one reason.

See, I have this whole issue with authorial intent and reader response. I know when I read something and comment and the writer comes back and says "*This* is what I meant..." I lose something. It's that shifting let me alone sort of thing. I've thought about this a lot in terms of fannish writing because with published writing there is no immediate forum to tap the author on the shoulder and say "is this rape? are they in love? is Dean really this passive? is it the curse? why are you so mean to me I want porn without having to think ( ... )

maygra March 8 2006, 14:16:30 UTC

I completely respect an even approve of that, because yeah, once the text is out there, what you meant and how people react to what they read are really two separate things ( ... )

maygra March 8 2006, 14:20:00 UTC

at the same time, I'd be totally up for discussing it off thread because you've just done something ...sheesh, I don't even know. slowed the universe down or something for a few seconds and I am utterly fascianted by that. however, absolutely no pressure. I'm enthralled, plain and simple, and that makes me all excited and chatty and the like.

ethrosdemon March 8 2006, 14:26:10 UTC

I am in NO WAY shutting you down. Have your say. This is lj and this is a open thread and you just talk it out until you can't stand yourself! I only peeked into the thread because I was struggling with saying "I THINK" and "I MEANT" and I wanted to say to both of you that you that the whole thing about fic is that it's interactive and that I didn't want to distract from anyone's reading by trying to be an authority figure. Of course I have my own view of this dynamic, but who cares?

I just erased several self-deprecating comments. In conclusion: thank you. Email me if you want to talk to me about it in private.

cocombat March 8 2006, 15:03:58 UTC

I read through to the end and the whole time I'm watching Dean fall in love with his brother as a girl (as opposed to just loving his brother), and in the end we realize Sam's been in love all along, brother or no and missing, until then, that the in love part was really reserved for girl!Sam and not //Sam// and I just didn't see that take on it all.Woah ( ... )

maygra March 8 2006, 15:26:22 UTC

We don't disagree that it's fucked up. It completely is and yes, from the beginning. Nor do I disagree that initially Dean didn't want to fall in love with girl!Sam, but imperatives of the heart aside, he did and does. I guess my take is that it takes less strength of will to say no to sex than it does to try and convicne yourself you're not in love with someone ( ... )

Back to all threads