Aiyee Ikea! and what a Will wants.

[elibad]

So I spent the day putting together a pile of Ikea furniture. A bookshelf/hutch thingy, a couple of stools and two bedside tables, and am I beat. My right arm and shoulder are sore, My right thand is practically raw (I just avoided blisters) and really, the bookshelf and bedside tables are not done yet. Oiy

Comments

[riveroceansea]

You make some great points here. The most telling moment, for me, besides Will's appearance on Isla Cruces is that moment in the longboat when will says "Where's Jack?" There's a deadly fire in his eyes and he's practically vibrating with anger. He's more than willing to take on Jack to keep Elizabeth.

I think Elizabeth enjoyed the power she had over Jack. Here's a woman in a restrained society tasting a bit of the power men have and likes it. She doesn't have to be 'proper' and with the attention Jack's giving her, of course she's lapping it up. Yet she runs to Will *before* she finds out Jack lied to her and despite what the compass says.

Her mournful state at the end of the movie is her not only dealing with the fact that she killed to save herself and Will, but that she killed Jack in particular. Not because she loved him necessarily, but because she respected him and all that he stood for. She took away Jack's ultimate love--his freedom.

As an aside, I ship practically every pairing, including Sparrabeth. :Grins:

[veronica_rich]

But here again, you've proven elibad's point: Everything turns into what Elizabeth wants. The only thing you say about Will is that he's willing to take on Jack for her. That really doesn't say much about what Will might want beyond Elizabeth, and I'm not sure she herself is the apex of his world. (See my reply below.)

The movies are already about what Elizabeth wants. Frankly, I'm to the point where I couldn't care less what Elizabeth wants, partly because she can't even figure it out. :-P

[elibad]

Part of the problem is that so much of Will in these movies is tied up in Elizabeth. She is undoubtedly important, but like you, I don't think she is his end all be all. If he loses her to Jack, or the monkey, or fickle fate, it won't destroy him.

I think on some level he may even expect to lose her, why qualify his return with "if you'll still have me" if he's 100% confident in his reception.

[veronica_rich]

And I'll let you smack me around with a wet fish, 'cause I just did the same thing below that I carped at you about ...

part 1 of long-ass comment

[veronica_rich]

but for Will it always seems to come down to this apple pie life of wife, kids, dog and a 'white picket fence'.What kills me is the way people write this, it's always with a snide tone, like "Jesus Christ! Who would want THAT?" Um ... maybe an orphan who lost his parents early in life and the only real parent he had after that was a drunken blacksmith (to whom he was undoubtedly financially indentured)? I agree his version of "family life" isn't going to be like the Cleavers', but for argument's sake, we'll say it's the 17-century equivalent thereof

Re: part 1 of long-ass comment

[elibad]

I totally agree that if Will wanted a normal life there would absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Part of the impetuous of this whole thing was me trolling about reading in one place how Will wasn't right (good enough) for Elizabeth because he wants 'normal' when she so obviously wants more, then reading right away that the Ending of Will as Jones and Jack and Elizabeth living a landlocked 'normal life' is perfect. I started wondering why it's so bad for Will to want this kind of life with Elizabeth, but it's okay if Elizabeth ends up living like this with Jack?

Re: part 1 of long-ass comment

[veronica_rich]

Jack and Elizabeth living a landlocked 'normal life' is perfect

**SNORTS**

Did this person ever actually WATCH POTC, or just read ff.net to get their information? Jack is about as suited to long-term land life as a fish is to a bicycle. I could see if he lived to be an old man, maybe *possibly* finishing his days out on land somewhere - but as I said, that implies he lives that long.

And Elizabeth had better not get knocked up and want to keep it, because I suspect she'd be left in a port somewhere as soon as he knew about it. But that's just me, and my opinions are not wildly popular in fandom, as we all know. *G*

Re: part 1 of long-ass comment

[elibad]

It's all because he's in love, don't ya know, true, deep, romance novel love. Having Elizabeth is worth the loss of his 'first and only love'.

For me I think Jack's 'love' would last about as long as the post-orgasmic euphoria. He'd be long gone before she even got her knickers back on.

But that's just me, and my opinions are not wildly popular in fandom, as we all know. *G*

Funny you should mention that, considering where I read this. But I doubt my opinions would be any more popular than yours, but that's why your my hero. I am completely incapable of overcoming my often gobsmacked, stupified response to much of what I read to even be coherent in my own lj, much less a comm somewhere.

Part 2 of long-ass comment

[veronica_rich]

Every time he is presented with the opportunity to get out there and 'do' something, he jumps at it, not humming and hawing, no false 'but it's dangerous', he just ponies up and dives right in.

This is what I like about him. He decides who he wants to help ahead of time, and he does it, regardless of what they might think of him. (Although, I do still feel sorry for Jack getting hit by the oar, but at least it's plausible to argue that at that point, Will didn't know him very well or what his angle was - whereas when Elizabeth tied Jack to the mast, she'd known him for awhile and he'd proven he would help her out more than once.)

But he still has his promise to his father, and it's suggested that while he believes that the other shoe he may have been waiting to drop in regards to Elizabeth has in fact descended, he does still love her and will do what he can to make sure she is happy.And to me, this proves while he's seeking a better life, he's not necessarily looking to do it on the Governor's dime as a gold-digger. More than one

Re: Part 2 of long-ass comment

[elibad]

He decides who he wants to help ahead of time, and he does it

This is a big reason why I like (aw hell, who am I kidding - love) him as well. He will pretty much do just about anything for the people he knows and cares about. He is willing to go after Jack for the 'Pearl' and Elizabeth, but also because it's Jack, and the right thing to do, regardless of what he believes about the kiss he saw. After all as far as Will knows Jack sacrificed himself for all of them.

I do still feel sorry for Jack getting hit by the oarThis was actually a really important moment for me as far as Will and his character are concerned. Everyone seems to get so up in arms about Will 'daring' to whack Jack in this manner but it made total sense to me, especially on the heels of Jack's "Have I ever given you reason not to trust me?" comment. My first thought to this was 'You haven't done anything to make him trust you. You know all the plotting behind his back and all.' Will knows something is up and I think that Jack saying that to him was a red flag

[pseudoblu]

Really interesting meta! You're right, all I've seen before on this topic were throw away comments about him wanting the wife and kids with nothing to back it up when someone questioned it. I don't have anything to say other than I think I agree with everything you said.

[elibad]

Poor Will, he's so often disregarded or shunted aside as an afterthought, but I am all about giving him the love.

[venusinchains]

I'm very much in agreement with you. I think I have a slightly different take on it, though.

I've always seen Will as an Angry Young Man (dad deserted him, mom died on him, pirates attacked him, Papa Swann or Norrington stuck him with a lush who - apparently - wasn't telling folks how much work Will did, and society's stratification separated him from his True Love, Liz ). He tuned that anger on pirates (for obvious reasons) and threw himself into it wholeheartedly, maybe thinking that living in a thriving port town he'd put all that practice to good use (and he was right!).

Something else I've always assumed, based on the kind of attention Liz pays to him at the beginning of CotBP, is that she has sought him out in the past, keeping in touch over the years, even if it had to be over exchanges with Mr. Brown or at some public, and therefore highly chaperoned, event (occasions that would have decreased as the two of them grew older - though not because Liz wanted them to

[elibad]

ITA with the 'Angry Young Man' thing, and the fact that he channels it. It does seem to occasionally materialize though. Will has him some authority issues, in both movies he pretty much gets in the grills of all the 'authority-type' figures at one time or another, Norrington, Jack, Barbosa, Governor Swann, Lord Beckett, Jones. Heck, he even goes off on Elizabeth in CotBP.

I really like your take on the Will/Elizabeth dynamic, it makes a lot of sense. Will seems to have a hyper sense of responsibility to the people within his little circle, Elizabeth, Bootstrap, even Jack, and comes across as willing to do just about anything for them, regardless of what he receives in return.

slight AWE speculation (that I'm sure you've heard) in case you're anti-spoilers

[venusinchains]

"in both movies he pretty much gets in the grills of all the 'authority-type' figures"

But it's not something he does lightly (though it may seem so to those authority figures). Every time, it's part of a crisis (for him) over something of vital importance to him (that has been endangered, in fact or in perception) - either Liz or his father or, interestingly enough (says the J/W shipper), Jack.

"Will seems to have a hyper sense of responsibility"

Something that, if it could be expanded to include others in need, might make him the perfect candidate for DJ's job.

Re: slight AWE speculation (that I'm sure you've heard) in case you're anti-spoilers

[elibad]

interestingly enough (says the J/W shipper), Jack.

We're sailing on the same ship, and can I mention that I really liked how Will was pretty belligerent on Jack's behalf with Beckett, especially for someone who claimed early in the conversation that they were more 'acquaintance' than 'friend'

Something that, if it could be expanded to include others in need, might make him the perfect candidate for DJ's job.

I think it could easily transfer to others, which is why some aspects of this possible ending may work, but still not convinced T&T are capable of pulling this off (unlike some exceptional fanfic writers!)