All's well that ends well, At World's End
So finally getting around to posting something about all this. Not much though, I feel a little like a hit and run victim. Its like I saw this thing, but I'm not sure what I saw, it's going to take a few more viewings to provide coherence.
Not like that's going to stop me from rambling on or anything. :p
So, I did like it, which actually makes me kind of leary since I liked DMC at first blush as well. Not that I hate DMC or anything, it just really disappointed me. I've been reading some comments regarding other fandoms recently and one was from someone who was 'quiting' the show because of where it went in the finale with her favorite character, I felt kinda bad for them. And then it kinda hit me that this was my issue with DMC, not quite so severe since it wasn't the characterization of my favorite character. My other issue was the fact that the stuff that was irritating me wasn't actually in the movie, on the screen. It was instead, the mad ramblings of the writers on the internet. But AWE went a long way to clearing up and fixing those issues for me, I just wish I could erase all of the idiot comments from T&T.
My biggest issue currently with AWE is there was too much and too many. The interactions of the 'big 3' was pretty much non-existent. But I can speculate and wank on what they did give us though, so I'm not too broke up about it.
Elizabeth was better in this movie. I still suffer from a certain apathy due to a general dislike of the actor, but I liked her better than I expected. I was also glad that the 'Mary-Sue' aspects that seemed hinted at in so many spoilers were not quite so obvious, and pretty well explained. I totally could have done without the speech she gave while standing on a giant wheel of cheese. I know lots of people liked it, thought it very stirring, me not so much, it was just a little too much.
It was fun to see Jack's hell, and it gave some insight into Jack's motivations in the movie that we haven't always gotten with him. I just loved those freaky little crabs.
Enjoyed Barbossa a lot, he's a great character, and death seems to have agreed with him, either that or losing the curse, he's got a touch more humanity this time around.
The baddies were, well, bad. Beckett is a delightful evil bastard, with a dry wit and frightening sense of purpose. Jones is completely irredeemable but there are flashes of his humanity on occasion, including a great literal shot. But he has become so twisted and cruel, his final act was proof of this.
I wasn't surprised at the deaths of the two semi-bigs from 1 and 2. Papa Swan was weird though, not that he was dead, but just his strange rambling turn into the world of exposition, you'd think dying would spare one this most unpleasant of tasks. And Norrington, I have never been much of a Norrington fan, I don't dislike him or anything, he just doesn't speak to me the way he seems to for such an enormous part of fandom, so I was pretty unaffected by that, which actually makes me kinda sad.
And the best for last, dear sweet William. I didn't think I could love him more but it turns out I could. Everything, from his bargaining to get the Pearl, to his talking to Jack about his fears of losing Elizabeth, to his accepting accusations on that sandbar, when Barbossa accuses him and Beckett deflects to Jack. His asking Elizabeth to marry him and his happiness during their fabulous wedding, his acceptance of his fate and his magnificent molestation of Elizabeth's leg on the beach. Just so much love.
From the movie, the CotFD is permanent and inescapable, and since I got all bent out of shape over T&T mouthing off about DMC, I can't really accept their 10 and free explanations for AWE. But it is possible that it can be worked into fanfic. It could also be worked into a 4th movie if that were ever to happen with the original 3 back. But the permanent thing has lots of potential as well.
There still wasn't enough J/W interaction in this movie, but what we got here was much juicier that what we got in DMC, even if there was less of it. I love the bit were Jack and Will are talking on the Pearl before Jack tosses him over board (with the power of his bad breath, hee). I love that Jack expected him to get out, I love that despite everything Will opens up to Jack about his fears, and I love that after all is said and done here, they are, for probably the first time since early in CotBP, working together towards a somewhat common goal. I love that Jack gives up what he want to save Will and it is not only for Elizabeth, not by a long shot. It's for Will, it's for himself and it's for Elizabeth.
One thing DMC did do for me, that it didn't for so many others, was invest me in the W/E relationship in a way I wasn't before. Mostly reactionary, and based upon defending it in the wake of so many attacks and dismissals. A lot of what we were given here worked for me. They do seem to have issues that don't get worked out, but in the end I'm not sure it matters.
Early on, Elizabeth is guilty and worried, she is worried about what she is capable of and what she is willing to do for Will. Will is worried that she loves Jack and she does nothing to disabuse him of this notion. But despite their rift, they are still very much attuned to each other. I find it interesting that Will is the one who initiates discourse between them and that Elizabeth, whose fight or flight instincts are very much fight, runs from him both times. This tells me that at this point Will is more sure of himself, he loves her and he is willing to fight for her. Elizabeth isn't so sure, I think she is afraid of how Will will react to what she did to Jack, and with good reason. Will is upset about what she did but when he confronts her about it he's so relieved that she's not in love with Jack (and that they have him back) that it pretty much, no longer even matters. What matters is that he doesn't know how she is reacting to what she did, and neither does she, their situation is still up in the air. She runs because it is so very important to her, she can pretty much deal with anything at this point, except her fears about Will.
I do think their conversations are important, Will telling her he's not sure he can trust her, frightens her, even though she agrees. Him then pretty much deciding it doesn't matter and asking her to marry him, goes a really long way to fixing things for her. Will doesn't care about what she's done, he cares about her, wants to be with her, so much so that he insists on marrying her during the middle of a battle. Suddenly everything she's been worried about no longer matters, nothing but her love and commitment to him does, they can work through everything else. It's Will's belief in her that restores her own belief in herself.
I also think that the ending is pretty empowering for Elizabeth, because she is capable of doing it, of loving him, but not having him all the time. And it is so much better than the alternative. There is definitely a period where she has 'lost' him, and I think after that, for her, what ever she can get is good enough.
I'm getting sick of everyone bemoaning this as anti-feminist, Elizabeth has made her decisions, all of her own free will, and is very willing to live with them. I don't for a minute believe that she is sitting somewhere bemoaning her fate, pining, waiting for Will. She is doing what she wants, when she wants, how she wants, living her life for herself, her son and the man she loves, who would expect nothing less of her. Sitting around feeling sorry for herself isn't Elizabeth's style, nor would it be fair to Will, who has no control over what has happened to him, and no, no freedom to do what he wants. Unfortunately so many of the anti-feminist rants seem tied up with the fact that she can't (or more appropriately, won't) fuck Jack.
So overall, I think I may have actually loved this. But I really need to see it again, soon, and quite possibly often. There are lots of options for fandom, for all 'shippers (yes even Norrington) and even for the possibility of more movies, with or without the Turners.
Not like that's going to stop me from rambling on or anything. :p
So, I did like it, which actually makes me kind of leary since I liked DMC at first blush as well. Not that I hate DMC or anything, it just really disappointed me. I've been reading some comments regarding other fandoms recently and one was from someone who was 'quiting' the show because of where it went in the finale with her favorite character, I felt kinda bad for them. And then it kinda hit me that this was my issue with DMC, not quite so severe since it wasn't the characterization of my favorite character. My other issue was the fact that the stuff that was irritating me wasn't actually in the movie, on the screen. It was instead, the mad ramblings of the writers on the internet. But AWE went a long way to clearing up and fixing those issues for me, I just wish I could erase all of the idiot comments from T&T.
My biggest issue currently with AWE is there was too much and too many. The interactions of the 'big 3' was pretty much non-existent. But I can speculate and wank on what they did give us though, so I'm not too broke up about it.
Elizabeth was better in this movie. I still suffer from a certain apathy due to a general dislike of the actor, but I liked her better than I expected. I was also glad that the 'Mary-Sue' aspects that seemed hinted at in so many spoilers were not quite so obvious, and pretty well explained. I totally could have done without the speech she gave while standing on a giant wheel of cheese. I know lots of people liked it, thought it very stirring, me not so much, it was just a little too much.
It was fun to see Jack's hell, and it gave some insight into Jack's motivations in the movie that we haven't always gotten with him. I just loved those freaky little crabs.
Enjoyed Barbossa a lot, he's a great character, and death seems to have agreed with him, either that or losing the curse, he's got a touch more humanity this time around.
The baddies were, well, bad. Beckett is a delightful evil bastard, with a dry wit and frightening sense of purpose. Jones is completely irredeemable but there are flashes of his humanity on occasion, including a great literal shot. But he has become so twisted and cruel, his final act was proof of this.
I wasn't surprised at the deaths of the two semi-bigs from 1 and 2. Papa Swan was weird though, not that he was dead, but just his strange rambling turn into the world of exposition, you'd think dying would spare one this most unpleasant of tasks. And Norrington, I have never been much of a Norrington fan, I don't dislike him or anything, he just doesn't speak to me the way he seems to for such an enormous part of fandom, so I was pretty unaffected by that, which actually makes me kinda sad.
And the best for last, dear sweet William. I didn't think I could love him more but it turns out I could. Everything, from his bargaining to get the Pearl, to his talking to Jack about his fears of losing Elizabeth, to his accepting accusations on that sandbar, when Barbossa accuses him and Beckett deflects to Jack. His asking Elizabeth to marry him and his happiness during their fabulous wedding, his acceptance of his fate and his magnificent molestation of Elizabeth's leg on the beach. Just so much love.
From the movie, the CotFD is permanent and inescapable, and since I got all bent out of shape over T&T mouthing off about DMC, I can't really accept their 10 and free explanations for AWE. But it is possible that it can be worked into fanfic. It could also be worked into a 4th movie if that were ever to happen with the original 3 back. But the permanent thing has lots of potential as well.
There still wasn't enough J/W interaction in this movie, but what we got here was much juicier that what we got in DMC, even if there was less of it. I love the bit were Jack and Will are talking on the Pearl before Jack tosses him over board (with the power of his bad breath, hee). I love that Jack expected him to get out, I love that despite everything Will opens up to Jack about his fears, and I love that after all is said and done here, they are, for probably the first time since early in CotBP, working together towards a somewhat common goal. I love that Jack gives up what he want to save Will and it is not only for Elizabeth, not by a long shot. It's for Will, it's for himself and it's for Elizabeth.
One thing DMC did do for me, that it didn't for so many others, was invest me in the W/E relationship in a way I wasn't before. Mostly reactionary, and based upon defending it in the wake of so many attacks and dismissals. A lot of what we were given here worked for me. They do seem to have issues that don't get worked out, but in the end I'm not sure it matters.
Early on, Elizabeth is guilty and worried, she is worried about what she is capable of and what she is willing to do for Will. Will is worried that she loves Jack and she does nothing to disabuse him of this notion. But despite their rift, they are still very much attuned to each other. I find it interesting that Will is the one who initiates discourse between them and that Elizabeth, whose fight or flight instincts are very much fight, runs from him both times. This tells me that at this point Will is more sure of himself, he loves her and he is willing to fight for her. Elizabeth isn't so sure, I think she is afraid of how Will will react to what she did to Jack, and with good reason. Will is upset about what she did but when he confronts her about it he's so relieved that she's not in love with Jack (and that they have him back) that it pretty much, no longer even matters. What matters is that he doesn't know how she is reacting to what she did, and neither does she, their situation is still up in the air. She runs because it is so very important to her, she can pretty much deal with anything at this point, except her fears about Will.
I do think their conversations are important, Will telling her he's not sure he can trust her, frightens her, even though she agrees. Him then pretty much deciding it doesn't matter and asking her to marry him, goes a really long way to fixing things for her. Will doesn't care about what she's done, he cares about her, wants to be with her, so much so that he insists on marrying her during the middle of a battle. Suddenly everything she's been worried about no longer matters, nothing but her love and commitment to him does, they can work through everything else. It's Will's belief in her that restores her own belief in herself.
I also think that the ending is pretty empowering for Elizabeth, because she is capable of doing it, of loving him, but not having him all the time. And it is so much better than the alternative. There is definitely a period where she has 'lost' him, and I think after that, for her, what ever she can get is good enough.
I'm getting sick of everyone bemoaning this as anti-feminist, Elizabeth has made her decisions, all of her own free will, and is very willing to live with them. I don't for a minute believe that she is sitting somewhere bemoaning her fate, pining, waiting for Will. She is doing what she wants, when she wants, how she wants, living her life for herself, her son and the man she loves, who would expect nothing less of her. Sitting around feeling sorry for herself isn't Elizabeth's style, nor would it be fair to Will, who has no control over what has happened to him, and no, no freedom to do what he wants. Unfortunately so many of the anti-feminist rants seem tied up with the fact that she can't (or more appropriately, won't) fuck Jack.
So overall, I think I may have actually loved this. But I really need to see it again, soon, and quite possibly often. There are lots of options for fandom, for all 'shippers (yes even Norrington) and even for the possibility of more movies, with or without the Turners.