On the sex appeal of literary crushes (more or less)

Mar 11, 2004 01:48

Last week, it took my fancy to read Lucy Maud Montgomery's "Emily" series. I've never really been into the series as a child and have never owned and read the first book, so I hunted it down on the Internet. And then I met Dean Priest.

She heard him say, "My God!" softly to himself. [...] "How can I help you?" said Dean Priest hoarsely, as if to ( Read more... )

author: jane austen, i'm not a romantic, author: lucy maud montgomery, fictional crushes, me myself and i, genre: cross-gen

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caesia390 March 11 2004, 00:13:02 UTC
just a note in defense of snarry........

as a snarry addict, i still take most fics with a grain of salt... harry's characterization is usually aged up considerably, in maturity if not in physical age. it's a rare fic that preserves the animosity of their canon relationship while successfully extrapolating several years into the future, so i understand how that pairing could seem 'off' to you, as the vast majority of them require some suspension of disbelief.

but when it does work.... >:} I find that, emotionally, the two are equals. Severus is emotionally stunted. Harry could grow up to be a more understanding, less self-centered person. Moreover, in canon, I read their relationship as overflowing with sexual tension. Harry never seems to respect Severus as a teacher, just as Severus never treats Harry as just another student - their relationship is far, far more complex than that, and what we see in the 5th book is them taking the first grudging steps toward understanding and respecting each other as individuals. It will be a long ( ... )

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arachnethe2 March 11 2004, 02:21:37 UTC
As for Snack........ I'd believe it, but it's so unhappy!!! More like mutual rape. ;_; And if it were to be happy... I just don't think I'd buy it. They hate each other. Vs Snape and Harry, who each hate what the other represents, but, as we've begun to see, could respect and even like each other as people.You know, Harry and Draco are hating each other as well and look what the fandom made of it. :) Now you might say: But Harry never send Draco to the Shrieking Shack, or vice versa. Right, but Draco could send Harry to Voldemort or rescue him from Voldemort as well. I mean, regardless what you are writing, in the very end it depends onto the story background. A happy Snack has, for example, no chance in time of OotP. The guys there are simply too fucked up for it and the happenings of PoA are still hanging heavily in the air. And the exceptions like An Ass of Himself are confirming the rule. Myself I don't like these mutual rape stories and neither the picture Bed of Nails from fielding. But these, as far I'm willing to admit, weren' ( ... )

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donnaimmaculata March 11 2004, 03:51:28 UTC
While I can't see Severus and Sirius ending up happily together in the OotP context, I can definitely see them being on the same level at last: At school Sirius used to be in a stronger position, and I absolutely can't accept any Snape/Black (apart from rape) set in the MWPP era. Then Sirius was in no position at all, because being in Azkaban was like being dead, really. In the narrative presence, however, they are equally fucked up and equally constricted by circumstances. (What a good and stable basis for a happy love affair...) - You see, the matter of power being balanced is indeed very important for me.

that in the next books Sirius and Severus will come to a sort of grudging acceptance.I definitely saw the possibility, too. While I like the mutual hate, I think it is possible to make them come to an understanding of sorts about some things. In a way, their grudge parallels the development (or lack thereof) of Draco's character. When it was introduced, it had a lot of potential, which Rowling simply neglects. Fortunately, this ( ... )

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donnaimmaculata March 11 2004, 03:36:30 UTC
You know, the Snape/Harry dynamics as such appeals to me a lot, what with the tension and the aggression and all. But my gut reaction is irritation. I do read a lot of Snarry fics and I enjoy many, but never completely. The knowledge that Harry has been Snape's student and that he is some 20 years younger always puts me off. It's not a rational reaction, and I know that I should ignore it (Hey, it's only fiction, and I know that, I really do! Honestly!), but I can't. It's just not my cup of tea - I prefer reading about relationships among peers.

Snarry was only an example. I've got the same problem with Harry/Remus and Harry/Sirius. I would have the same problem if a friend of mine got himself a 17-years-old girlfriend. I might like her and understand what he finds so appealing about her after I got to learn her, but on first hearing the news, I would be irritated at the very least.

Vs Snape and Harry, who each hate what the other represents, but, as we've begun to see, could respect and even like each other as people.That's ( ... )

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caesia390 March 11 2004, 12:28:45 UTC
Right. I think what it all comes down to is personal preference, personal interpretation of characters... What I like about Snarry is that, in the fics I read, they really complete each other. Harry sees past Snape's snark and Snape holds Harry's egotism in check; Harry's brashness complements Snape's reserve; but they're alike enough to understand each other 100% where it counts. And, again, in my head, it doesn't really work until Harry is a good several years past graduation. But I see how the same dynamics could be found in Snack, just with slightly different interpretations of the characters. In my mind, there's too much real hate between them... Sirius's egotism borders on sociopathic (and i like him that way); I can't imagine him ever respecting Snape... It just doesn't work; it would take a complete breakdown of how I see his character. And, likewise, I can't ever imagine Snape letting go of the torments he suffered. I could see sex, yes, but not happy sex....... And, god help me, for all my cynicism, I am a romantic at heart ( ... )

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donnaimmaculata March 11 2004, 13:35:04 UTC
Yeah, I haven't got any problems with the Snape/Harry dynamics. But, as I elaborated further in my comment to laurelwood below, I've got this weird problem with relationships between people from different levels within a hierarchical structure.

In my mind, there's too much real hate between them...

I fully agree that there is a lot of genuine and deeply rooted hatred between Sirius and Severus and that it borders on impossible to prevent them from killing each other let alone lead a civil conversation. But, before OotP was released, there was the distinct possibility for them to learn to accept each other. As arachnete2 pointed out, she was very disappointed that they weren't allowed to make a progress towards if not understanding then at least less open hostility. The way Rowling handled the Snape/Black dynamics in OotP reminds me of the way she handles Draco: There is definitely potential for development of interaction/character, but she ignores it completely. Although, of course, the fact that she didn't change their attitude towards each other fits ( ... )

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caesia390 March 11 2004, 15:40:39 UTC
ahhh, order of the phoenix.... <3 i don't have much to add to your oh-so-insightful comments. it's all about stagnation; i had never thought of it so precisely, but yes.

i guess i doubt that snape and sirius could ever manage anything beyond grudging acceptance, in the best of circumstances... but hey, that's me. :}

and as for harry at the end of ootp - i do slightly disagree. i think that he's falling back on his blaming of snape as a defense because of his own guilt about sirius's death; he just can't handle that and the revelations about his parents and his empathy with snape all at once... he retreats; he lashes out. but i firmly believe that the understanding is still there, under the surface, and their relationship will become even more... entangled... in future books.

could swear i had one more thing to say...... doo de doo...... er, i'm happy to say that i don't see harry trusting anyone anytime soon, last of all remus. note that he still calls him Lupin in his mind, and the lack of interaction between those two in general ( ... )

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donnaimmaculata March 13 2004, 05:45:59 UTC
he just can't handle that and the revelations about his parents and his empathy with snape all at once... he retreats; he lashes out. but i firmly believe that the understanding is still there, under the surface, and their relationship will become even more... entangled... in future books.Yes, I fully agree here. But - and this is what I mean by saying he falls back into the old patterns - Rowling doesn't let him change with respect to Snape. Possibly not yet. Possibly never. However, the possibility that there is understanding for Snape dawning in Harry is not what Rowling shows us - she merely indicates it, providing the basis for an understaning, but it's the fandom which carries the idea further ( ... )

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caesia390 March 13 2004, 06:48:04 UTC
This is exactly the situation I'd compare with what happened with Sirius and Severus: there was definitely potential at the end of GoF for their mutual hatred to subside.

Ooh! Good point! This just goes to show how preferred pairings can influence a person. I'd just sort of shoved that line to the back of my mind. ...Not that I'm saying I could imagine them jumping into bed now, but I do have a much clearer idea of the fact that... some progress might have been made... I guess part of it is that I just like them hating each other a lot. It's a nice outlet... "blah blah blah life sucks, but hey, at least i can still fantasize about (hexing snape/poisoning black)." and i guess in happy fluff land there would be no real intention to ever carry it through... whereas, in canon, they do want to murder each other. which is powerful. (typing before i've made up my mind again - ok, think break.)

... doo de doo ...

hmmmmmm..... i guess that's what my block is. snape's capacity for hatred is so great. i don't think he really hates harry, not ( ... )

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caesia390 March 11 2004, 15:50:36 UTC
OH RIGHT now i remember

The way Rowling handled the Snape/Black dynamics in OotP reminds me of the way she handles Draco: There is definitely potential for development of interaction/character, but she ignores it completely. one of the things that consistently disturbs me about rowling is her seeming identification with dumbledore's "morality," ie Slytherins Are Bad (with maybe one exception... but even snape's iffy), Gryffindors Are Good (ignore the tyrants behind the curtain, please). Though, given the way she developed Snape and the marauders in OotP, she seems to be blatantly contradicting her own rule. ~_~ damn the woman and her ambiguity... I absolutely agree that Draco has a huge wealth of potential... Hell, I like to think that Lucius Malfoy is sort of the classier version of Sirius Black - doing what has to be done to serve his own interests and the interests of the ones he loves, no such thing as right or wrong. I don't know I don't know.... In interviews JKR makes me want to throttle her, but then OotP came along and ( ... )

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donnaimmaculata March 13 2004, 06:08:55 UTC
one of the things that consistently disturbs me about rowling is her seeming identification with dumbledore's "morality," Yes! Definitely! The way she established Dumbledore annoys the hell out of me. I wasn't shocked by Sirius' and James' behaviour in OotP, though, because we've always known about Sirius that he had this violent streak, so it was all very much IC. I also think that Sirius, Remus and Severus are excellently executed as ambiguous characters. But Dumbledore isn't. In my opinion, Rowling didn't manage to make him a three-dimensional character, even though she tried to give him ambiguity, because his character gives the impression that he is supposed to be the main moral instance ( ... )

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caesia390 March 13 2004, 06:33:04 UTC
As to Draco - I think by now, Rowling could have fleshed him out a bit.

I agree. I hate having to rely so much on speculation... I want some confirmation, damn it! Draco is complex and sympathetic!!!

I was listening to the OotP audiobook last night and realised that what interests me most about the upcoming books is how Rowling's going to develop Dudley and Petunia...

Well she did say that we're going to know what Dudley's Worst Memory is (yaaayyy!!!!! ...here's hoping it' doesn't involve aunt marge). so, yes, i think she definitely has some development in store for them...

And whether she will kill off Remus *whines*

Nahhhhhhhh..... Remus suffers too prettily. >:} His destiny is to go on and on losing people, forever, trudging along life's roads in self-imposed stoicism and misery. ...Well if I were writing the story... I had convinced myself she was going to kill off Snape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;_; But now I'm beginning to dip my toes back into tantalizing Harry-death scenerios ( ... )

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dphearson April 24 2004, 12:54:58 UTC
Wandering in ( ... )

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donnaimmaculata April 24 2004, 14:24:36 UTC
Yes, JKR has set Dumbledore up to be kind, warm,crafty, clever jovial, etc. But she has also shown, in bits and pieces, that Dumbledore is capable of vainglorious actions, arrogance, emotinal distancing and not giving trust.

I know she did; but from all I know about her view on Dumbledore, she thinks he is a good person.

My problem with Dumbledore is that I don't really see him as a character. He was established as a plot device, necessary to explain the background and to facilitate the solution at the end of each novel, which is a popular method in many children books. We've never seen him do anything great. Rowling told us he was great - e.g. via Hagrid. In the early novels, Harry's (and everyone's) trust in Dumbledore always seemed a bit off, because he never prevented any horrible stuff from happening; he merely arrived at the end, like clockwork, and offered a neat summary, a life lesson and a conclusion so that the author could finish the book without bothering with loose threads. In OotP, Rowling tried to flesh him out, but ( ... )

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