On the sex appeal of literary crushes (more or less)
Last week, it took my fancy to read Lucy Maud Montgomery's "Emily" series. I've never really been into the series as a child and have never owned and read the first book, so I hunted it down on the Internet. And then I met Dean Priest.
She heard him say, "My God!" softly to himself. [...] "How can I help you?" said Dean Priest hoarsely, as if to ( Read more... )
She heard him say, "My God!" softly to himself. [...] "How can I help you?" said Dean Priest hoarsely, as if to ( Read more... )
as a snarry addict, i still take most fics with a grain of salt... harry's characterization is usually aged up considerably, in maturity if not in physical age. it's a rare fic that preserves the animosity of their canon relationship while successfully extrapolating several years into the future, so i understand how that pairing could seem 'off' to you, as the vast majority of them require some suspension of disbelief.
but when it does work.... >:} I find that, emotionally, the two are equals. Severus is emotionally stunted. Harry could grow up to be a more understanding, less self-centered person. Moreover, in canon, I read their relationship as overflowing with sexual tension. Harry never seems to respect Severus as a teacher, just as Severus never treats Harry as just another student - their relationship is far, far more complex than that, and what we see in the 5th book is them taking the first grudging steps toward understanding and respecting each other as individuals. It will be a long way until they reach the type of dynamic (or even a variation of it) popular in canon, but I see them as definitely on that road.
So while I can't imagine Snarry happening while Harry is 15, or even 17, or... 20, I do see the very real possibility of it once Harry has matured and Snape has calmed down a bit. The issue of authority doesn't seem real to me at all, because it's something Harry doesn't respect and Snape loses anyway, as he's so out of control when it comes to his resentment of Harry.
As for Snack........ I'd believe it, but it's so unhappy!!! More like mutual rape. ;_; And if it were to be happy... I just don't think I'd buy it. They hate each other. Vs Snape and Harry, who each hate what the other represents, but, as we've begun to see, could respect and even like each other as people.
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You know, Harry and Draco are hating each other as well and look what the fandom made of it. :) Now you might say: But Harry never send Draco to the Shrieking Shack, or vice versa. Right, but Draco could send Harry to Voldemort or rescue him from Voldemort as well. I mean, regardless what you are writing, in the very end it depends onto the story background. A happy Snack has, for example, no chance in time of OotP. The guys there are simply too fucked up for it and the happenings of PoA are still hanging heavily in the air. And the exceptions like An Ass of Himself are confirming the rule. Myself I don't like these mutual rape stories and neither the picture Bed of Nails from fielding. But these, as far I'm willing to admit, weren't meant to be nice. The best Snack's I read were future fics. You know, these ones, where the war ended, Sirius got free of the charges and full different circumstances are in charge.
At least - at least for myself - I'm a big believer of the power of forgiveness. In my life I was already twice very close to hate. In one case it was a person, in the other a whole nation. To hate is very easy: it suddenly makes the view of your world very clear and simple to follow the lines. But it is very dreadful and tiresome as well. And if you give yourself into too much it destroys you in the end. To forgive is the rescue of yourself, but simultaneously the most difficult thing ever. To do it I needed in the first place lots of strength, lot of time to change myself and my life. But in the end it was the best thing I have ever done.
Perhaps this is another reason for myself writing and liking Snack so much. These grudges and fights in the canon are getting tiresome more and more. And I'm afraid, that JKR will keep it so to the very end. I the second last chapter of GoF JKR set a wonderful promise for me, that in the next books Sirius and Severus will come to a sort of grudging acceptance. Nothing of that happened in OotP, which turned for me to be the biggest disapointment of the book. Bigger than Sirius' death, actually. So as you see, someone has to fix it. ;) I don't harbor any illusion that someone of the kinky crowd out there will ever buy it, but I have been always more idealistic than realistic and this is all fun fiction in the end. Because - and this is the probably the truest argument for myself writing Snack - in my head the guys are all disgustingly mushy hearts and flowers that I HAVE to write it down to get rid of this annoying image. :)
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that in the next books Sirius and Severus will come to a sort of grudging acceptance.
I definitely saw the possibility, too. While I like the mutual hate, I think it is possible to make them come to an understanding of sorts about some things. In a way, their grudge parallels the development (or lack thereof) of Draco's character. When it was introduced, it had a lot of potential, which Rowling simply neglects. Fortunately, this is what the fandom is for - fixing the author's omissions ;-)
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Snarry was only an example. I've got the same problem with Harry/Remus and Harry/Sirius. I would have the same problem if a friend of mine got himself a 17-years-old girlfriend. I might like her and understand what he finds so appealing about her after I got to learn her, but on first hearing the news, I would be irritated at the very least.
Vs Snape and Harry, who each hate what the other represents, but, as we've begun to see, could respect and even like each other as people.
That's interesting, because I had a conversation about Snape/Black with someone once, who said that Severus and Sirius each hate what the other represents. I guess it's all a matter of interpretation. Dynamics-wise, I can see Snape/Black just as I can see Snape/Harry, but it's got the advantage of being carried out among equals.
Like my aversion against Snape/Harry, my preference of Snape/Black is more instinctive than anything. (Though 'aversion' is a hard word. I don't hate the pairing.) I like the enemies-turned-lovers scenario. I like the aggressive sex and the insults and the hatred that turns into red-hot lust. And because we are in fanfiction here, I can believe or write a plot where Severus and Sirius come to an understanding of sorts, even though I can't see them as friends.
I am able to ignore the fact that there is no understanding (let alone sympathy) between Sirius and Severus rather than ignore the fact that Harry is 20 years younger than Snape. That's by no means an evaluation of Snarry in general. That's just me.
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Anyway. That's just me. :} WOO HOO for a diverse fandom.
And just to throw this out there - Harry/Remus squicks me beyond all reason; that strikes me as an abuse of trust. Harry never trusts Snape, but Remus, who constructs his survival upon getting people to like him, to think him harmless........ ghyaahhhhhh ~_@
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In my mind, there's too much real hate between them...
I fully agree that there is a lot of genuine and deeply rooted hatred between Sirius and Severus and that it borders on impossible to prevent them from killing each other let alone lead a civil conversation. But, before OotP was released, there was the distinct possibility for them to learn to accept each other. As arachnete2 pointed out, she was very disappointed that they weren't allowed to make a progress towards if not understanding then at least less open hostility. The way Rowling handled the Snape/Black dynamics in OotP reminds me of the way she handles Draco: There is definitely potential for development of interaction/character, but she ignores it completely. Although, of course, the fact that she didn't change their attitude towards each other fits in very well into the general context of OotP, which is all about stagnation.
In any case, I think that the Snape/Black interaction is one aspect that should be tackled by fic writers, since Rowling ignores its potential. I would, eh?
As to Snape/Harry, I am not opposed to it and can see its potential well enough, even though it doesn't exactly tickle my fancy. I even hope that Rowling's going to exploit it further. Because as yet, she hasn't had Harry learn anything from his insight into Snape's mind: At the end of OotP, he falls back into his old behaviour pattern, blaming Snape for everything (i.e. Sirius' death), just like he used to blame him all throughout the years. I don't think it's so much Harry's fault; I am rather worried that Rowling will keep up this pattern just like she keeps up having Harry, Ron and Hermione humiliating Draco, Crabbe and Goyle at the end of each school year on the train.
Of course, Harry was beyond himself with hurt and despair at the end of OotP, and his reaction made some sort of sense, but what's the point then of showing a hesitant dawning of understanding between the characters only to make it all invalid by adapting old patterns over and over again? The characters of a novel must be allowed development and to learn from their experiences and mistakes. (And in spite of all that I said about relating to the characters as to real people, I am aware that they are only fictional.)
Sirius's egotism borders on sociopathic
Sirius is a strange mixture of absolute egoism on the one hand and just as absolute selflessness on the other - when it comes to protecting the ones he loves. He is completely unable to see anything positive in people he hates and anything negative in those he loves. What an annoying bastard. But hey - he's got charms! And yes, I am that shallow.
And, god help me, for all my cynicism, I am a romantic at heart.
Heh! Cynism is the protector of romantics, or so I heard. I want happy fanfiction, too. It's all about escapism, baby!
Harry/Remus squicks me beyond all reason; that strikes me as an abuse of trust.
Yeah, if anything, I prefer seeing Harry (or Hermione, for that matter) with Snape. Although I see the relationship as potentially abusive (especially in Hermione's case), it is more in character for Severus than Remus. I understand that many fans want to see Remus assuming the role of the father figure in Harry's life and become his confidant - without the burden of being his legal guardian, and thus being in the position of shagging Harry silly. But I don't see Remus being able and willing to allow real closeness. Harry trusts him, but he doesn't do anything much to deserve this trust.
but Remus, who constructs his survival upon getting people to like him, to think him harmless...
Fucking manipulative werewolf. He would hurt Harry more than Severus ever could, because with Severus, Harry is on his guard. All my rambling on abusive student/teacher relationships applies even more to Remus/Harry than Harry/Snape. But again, this doesn's stop me from reading Remus/Harry fics and enjoying the well-written ones.
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i guess i doubt that snape and sirius could ever manage anything beyond grudging acceptance, in the best of circumstances... but hey, that's me. :}
and as for harry at the end of ootp - i do slightly disagree. i think that he's falling back on his blaming of snape as a defense because of his own guilt about sirius's death; he just can't handle that and the revelations about his parents and his empathy with snape all at once... he retreats; he lashes out. but i firmly believe that the understanding is still there, under the surface, and their relationship will become even more... entangled... in future books.
could swear i had one more thing to say...... doo de doo...... er, i'm happy to say that i don't see harry trusting anyone anytime soon, last of all remus. note that he still calls him Lupin in his mind, and the lack of interaction between those two in general. even if harry doesn't consciously think it, i believe he resents lupin's deliberate non-involvement in his life.
Yay sirius!!! i just finished this cheesy historical adventure with a main character that reminded me of him - charming, brilliant, brave, ruthless. Vendetta in Spain, if you're interested, but be warned - it's very cheesy. kind of like if sirius wrote a novel, subtitled "I Am So Cool." ^_^
grrr.... know i had something more to say..... but maybe not. oh well.
vive la escapism!!!!!
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Yes, I fully agree here. But - and this is what I mean by saying he falls back into the old patterns - Rowling doesn't let him change with respect to Snape. Possibly not yet. Possibly never. However, the possibility that there is understanding for Snape dawning in Harry is not what Rowling shows us - she merely indicates it, providing the basis for an understaning, but it's the fandom which carries the idea further.
This is exactly the situation I'd compare with what happened with Sirius and Severus: there was definitely potential at the end of GoF for their mutual hatred to subside. "You're both on the same side now" and all this. They've been both fucked by life and in GoF their both lives were at a turning point. However, Rowling didn't explore this potential. I fear, she might neglect Harry and Snape, too.
last of all remus. note that he still calls him Lupin in his mind, and the lack of interaction between those two in general.
There is not much interaction, but Harry instinctively refers to Remus' guidance at the beginning of OotP. Okay, this might be because between Mad-Eye Moody and a bunch of completely strangers, Lupin is the lesser evil, but poor Harry's entire life is basically all about choosing lesser evils... I don't think Rowling will have Remus take over the part of Harry's father figure, but it is certainly something a part of the fandom wishes for.
charming, brilliant, brave, ruthless. [...] kind of like if sirius wrote a novel, subtitled "I Am So Cool." ^_^
Yay! Uber-cool!Sirius! He's so irresistible!
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Ooh! Good point! This just goes to show how preferred pairings can influence a person. I'd just sort of shoved that line to the back of my mind. ...Not that I'm saying I could imagine them jumping into bed now, but I do have a much clearer idea of the fact that... some progress might have been made... I guess part of it is that I just like them hating each other a lot. It's a nice outlet... "blah blah blah life sucks, but hey, at least i can still fantasize about (hexing snape/poisoning black)." and i guess in happy fluff land there would be no real intention to ever carry it through... whereas, in canon, they do want to murder each other. which is powerful. (typing before i've made up my mind again - ok, think break.)
... doo de doo ...
hmmmmmm..... i guess that's what my block is. snape's capacity for hatred is so great. i don't think he really hates harry, not the real non-james harry... annoyed in all directions by him, certainly, but not the boiling hatred he has for his peers who wronged him. so i can work with that, but i wouldn't know how to go about tackling this cauldron of ire that stands between him and black. i mean, i can see black using snape, raping him, no problem. and i can see snape snapping and raping black in a fit of dementia (because for him it would be a loss of control; black would just torture him for the hell of it). and then repurcussions of that, maybe, but as for just stepping down.... what could make them do that... wahhhh. brain boggling.
it's like everthing about them clashes - their personalities hate each other, even if snape wasn't the personification of sirius's family, even if sirius wasn't the personification of arrogance and charisma.
and this really makes me want to work james into this discussion... because i hate to leave james out. i love james and sirius; they're so... complementary. the perfect best friends. they hate snape in slightly different ways, but they each hate him so, so much, and snape hates them individually in return.
and then remus and peter and.... ok; if i start going into everyone snape hates, it will never end.
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The way Rowling handled the Snape/Black dynamics in OotP reminds me of the way she handles Draco: There is definitely potential for development of interaction/character, but she ignores it completely.
one of the things that consistently disturbs me about rowling is her seeming identification with dumbledore's "morality," ie Slytherins Are Bad (with maybe one exception... but even snape's iffy), Gryffindors Are Good (ignore the tyrants behind the curtain, please). Though, given the way she developed Snape and the marauders in OotP, she seems to be blatantly contradicting her own rule. ~_~ damn the woman and her ambiguity... I absolutely agree that Draco has a huge wealth of potential... Hell, I like to think that Lucius Malfoy is sort of the classier version of Sirius Black - doing what has to be done to serve his own interests and the interests of the ones he loves, no such thing as right or wrong. I don't know I don't know.... In interviews JKR makes me want to throttle her, but then OotP came along and completely jived with the characterizations if not the situations I had imagined... And, remember, this is all Harry's POV. I think it would take a hell of a lot for him to see Draco as anything other than a snobbish bully, and as Harry isn't very imaginative on his own and doesn't have the benefit of breaking into the other boy's mind...
I want to start waving banners. SUPPORT SLYTHERIN! ...Why am I only interested in fictional politics...?
*must avoid panic attacks about upcoming books*
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Yes! Definitely! The way she established Dumbledore annoys the hell out of me. I wasn't shocked by Sirius' and James' behaviour in OotP, though, because we've always known about Sirius that he had this violent streak, so it was all very much IC. I also think that Sirius, Remus and Severus are excellently executed as ambiguous characters. But Dumbledore isn't. In my opinion, Rowling didn't manage to make him a three-dimensional character, even though she tried to give him ambiguity, because his character gives the impression that he is supposed to be the main moral instance.
As to Draco - I think by now, Rowling could have fleshed him out a bit. She even managed to do so with Dudley and Petunia - and they have never seemed to have half the potential of Draco.
I was listening to the OotP audiobook last night and realised that what interests me most about the upcoming books is how Rowling's going to develop Dudley and Petunia... And whether she will kill off Remus *whines*
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I agree. I hate having to rely so much on speculation... I want some confirmation, damn it! Draco is complex and sympathetic!!!
I was listening to the OotP audiobook last night and realised that what interests me most about the upcoming books is how Rowling's going to develop Dudley and Petunia...
Well she did say that we're going to know what Dudley's Worst Memory is (yaaayyy!!!!! ...here's hoping it' doesn't involve aunt marge). so, yes, i think she definitely has some development in store for them...
And whether she will kill off Remus *whines*
Nahhhhhhhh..... Remus suffers too prettily. >:} His destiny is to go on and on losing people, forever, trudging along life's roads in self-imposed stoicism and misery. ...Well if I were writing the story... I had convinced myself she was going to kill off Snape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;_; But now I'm beginning to dip my toes back into tantalizing Harry-death scenerios.......
And as for Dumbledore... I'm holding my breath. I'm going to wait for the very end and hope hope hope that eventually he'll make some sort of sense.
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To be fair, JKR has shown Dumbledore as a 3-d character- it is just that Harry has not absorbed that it, and so, we do not get thenuances until a second reading.
This man, this great wizard is also a wily one- or so he thinks. Does it not strike you that:
1) He commits an error of trust by not telling Harry what he needs to know
2) Depsite being comnsidered 'great' he has enough political enemies- or people who plain resent him- to be monitored by the Minstry toady and remobed from office? That editorials make fun of him in the paper?
3) That he treats his one oof his top teachers, a man who would proabably open a vein for him, like shit(emotionally, that is)
4) That he allowed his own knowledge of how Sirius could be (the bullying, the Shrieking Shack, amongst many others, I am sure)to allow this poor man to rot in prison, instead of speaking up for him (as he did for Severus)or calling for a trial
5) Running an viligante Order- above and beyond the Ministry- and losing many of his young people in the process.
Yes, JKR has set Dumbledore up to be kind, warm,crafty, clever jovial, etc. But she has also shown, in bits and pieces, that Dumbledore is capable of vainglorious actions, arrogance, emotinal distancing and not giving trust.
Does that make you feel better:-)?
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I know she did; but from all I know about her view on Dumbledore, she thinks he is a good person.
My problem with Dumbledore is that I don't really see him as a character. He was established as a plot device, necessary to explain the background and to facilitate the solution at the end of each novel, which is a popular method in many children books. We've never seen him do anything great. Rowling told us he was great - e.g. via Hagrid. In the early novels, Harry's (and everyone's) trust in Dumbledore always seemed a bit off, because he never prevented any horrible stuff from happening; he merely arrived at the end, like clockwork, and offered a neat summary, a life lesson and a conclusion so that the author could finish the book without bothering with loose threads. In OotP, Rowling tried to flesh him out, but for me, it didn't work. I've always perceived D. as a plot device, a voice ex machina, and I don't buy his transition into a 3D character. This is, of course, merely my impression of Dumbledore and I know that the majority don't see him like that.
The morality issue in general is one that interests me a lot. I am pretty sure from all that is known from her interviews that Rowling has established Dumbledore as a highly moral character and as the major moral instance. In OotP, he admits he has failed, but it is caused by his love for Harry - a highly honourable notion. His former failures and blunders are not even mentioned.
There are several examples that particularly annoy me: In CoS, after the final fight, Harry confides in D. his worries he might be a Slytherin, but instead of pointing out that Slytherin is just a house like the others, D. says that only a true Griffindor could have pulled out the sword etc. I would gladly accept that this is merely an indication that D. is fallible after all, but from all that we've seen so far: Draco's lack of characterisation, the Slytherins as the House of Evil, I fear that D. speaks the autor's mind. Especially since he concludes his speech with the moral lesson that it is our choices that make us what we truly are, which is clearly Rowling speaking.
In GoF, not only D. knows about the dragons in the first task, but also (parts) of his staff, while Mme Maxime and Karkaroff are considered (and prove themselves) as not trustworthy. Why? Because they're foreigners? Because they're not Dumbledore? They've got exactly the same status as he has, being Heads of schools and judges. Again, I think this is the author's fault; she needs the others not to know, and having D. around means being able to explain plot holes away.
So all these little things make me think that Dumbledore, indeed, is established as the voice of truth and morality. And while I gladly accept the deconstruction of James, Sirius and Remus, who have morphed in very 3D characters, D. just doesn't work for me. (Although from all I know, Rowling thinks Sirius is a *good* person, too.)
morgan_d wrote a Dumbledore essay some months ago which explains what I mean very well. You might have read it; I think it was quite popular.
(purely personal impression, as always *g*)
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