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dark_writer13

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Nov 30, 2005 21:20

First, to use my live journal as an adversitement board:

Gallimaufry submission for spin off are due on Friday. Do it!

Also, Jeffery Montgomery is coming on Wednesday the 7th from 7-8:30 in the Kingswood Commons to talk about The Laramie Project! Everyone come!!!

And now, for my thoughts on the Katie Koestner visit...

First, I want to mention ( Read more... )

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forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... aguyandhisdeck December 1 2005, 04:58:15 UTC

there's rape, and then there's "date rape", and I think they're two seperate ideas. Humor me for a bit: A man forcibly grabs a random woman, takes her to an ally, holds a gun to her head, and has his way with her. She got raped. That's obvious ( ... )

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... aguyandhisdeck December 1 2005, 05:28:50 UTC

I can see the difference in motivation. The random guy who rapes the woman on the street is different from John, but their act is still the same. John still doesn't have consent and just becauase things had started doesn't mean the need to continue. Once the girl has passed out John has no right to continue touching her. John should realize that now the girl is incapable of giving consent for further acts and he should have stopped once she passed out. Just because the girl went into a private room it doesn't mean John has an all access pass to her body.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... rejoicedpeace December 1 2005, 05:29:06 UTC

I can see the difference in motivation. The random guy who rapes the woman on the street is different from John, but their act is still the same. John still doesn't have consent and just becauase things had started doesn't mean the need to continue. Once the girl has passed out John has no right to continue touching her. John should realize that now the girl is incapable of giving consent for further acts and he should have stopped once she passed out. Just because the girl went into a private room it doesn't mean John has an all access pass to her body.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... wally14 December 1 2005, 17:26:42 UTC

how dare you. How would you feel if you'd woken up to find that you had no recollection of having sex with this person. What if it was your first time? What if they weren't attractive to you? It's the same fucking thing.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... aguyandhisdeck December 1 2005, 19:37:13 UTC

and I quote:

"So, John can still be charged with rape in the sense that he engaged in involuntary sex with the other person."

I'm not saying he's not guilty of a crime. But I am saying it's not the "same fucking thing". Like it or not, the girl DOES take some responsibility for what happened. Unless she was drugged by the guy, it is essentially her fault (yes you could argue peer pressure, blah blah but I don't want to be here all day) that she drank to the point where she passed out. While that does not condone such actions being done to her, it still makes her partially to blame.

To be simpler, here's an analogy: Someone leaves their house unlocked, and then goes out into the street and yells out to everyone that his house is unlocked and he won't be there. He gets robbed. So, the robber is still a criminal. But don't tell me that the guy wasn't partially to blame.

this isn't a personal attack against you, or the person who spoke at cranbrook as I don't know the particulars of her story. I'm merely backing up my case.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... wally14 December 1 2005, 19:54:06 UTC

well to fit in with your robbery analogy....is "being a slut" asking for it? NO. Know one asks for rape, no matter what their sexual history is. That's why there's rape shield laws that prevent that EVER coming into question. in no way is it her fault, and she is not partially to blame.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... satansplaything December 1 2005, 20:13:56 UTC

Possibly sounding like an asshole ( ... )

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... wally14 December 1 2005, 21:27:41 UTC

even if she wore a sign that said come fuck me now...im free and tight...that still isnt an open invitation. She was incapacitated and unable to make a choice...therefore it's rape.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... aguyandhisdeck December 2 2005, 07:11:31 UTC

I've been giving you the courtesy of reading and paying attention to what you say in your comments before passing judgement. Please grant me the same courtesy ( ... )

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... aguyandhisdeck December 2 2005, 07:39:10 UTC

As I said to Wally 14, I don't appreciate your condescending tone. I was trying to voice a different view on the matter, and in turn I am labeled as "a problem with the world". Also, as stated in my other comment, every person is responsible for his or her actions and the consequences of those actions. This applies to both of the people involved ( ... )

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... lightmagicks December 4 2005, 22:50:05 UTC

um question guys.... would you have sex with a dead girl? cause in my mind once a girl has passed out it would be pretty much the same thing, she has no control over what happenes to her or what is going on. she has not given consent for you to have sex with her and her making out with you before hand has nothing to do with the point. have you ever made out with a girl and then not had sex with her? if you have raise your hand cause im sure you have i know i have made out with guys and then said no to sex or them personnally touching me in anyother way. just cause she made out with you drunk gives u no right to touch her. and going back to my first question if she were dead would u still have sex with her? if you were dead would u want people to have sex with you. and keep in mind that if you pass out after consumming a ton of alcohol you can die. rape is rape no matter how u spell it. pressuring or forcing a girl to have sex with you is rape and not a way to win any points. believe me i know. you can spell it any way you like ( ... )

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... aguyandhisdeck December 5 2005, 02:34:26 UTC

I didnt say you were the problem with the world. The fact that this particular opinion of yours is tolerated is the problem. So I'm not contributing to it ( ... )

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... _life_101 December 1 2005, 19:50:42 UTC

i dont think anyone except the person raped gets to judge how traumatizing or emotionally scarring the experience was.
so rape is a personal experience. it doesnt really have a distinct defintion and yet is used all the time. both are monsters if the woman wants to see them as monsters.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... wally14 December 1 2005, 19:55:00 UTC

agreed. rape is disgusting and aguyandhisdeck has a very skewed sense of what is acceptable in the human world.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... aguyandhisdeck December 2 2005, 07:44:11 UTC

that is a personal attack. I refrained from doing anything of the sort to you, and I expected that you would return the courtesy.

If you read what I said without anger or bias, you'll see that, and this is the last time I'm telling you this, I NOT ONCE said it was acceptable. Prove me wrong with a direct quote, find the words "and I think that what he did was just fine" and I'll accept your judgement of me.

Re: forgive me for sounding possibly like an asshole but... lightmagicks December 4 2005, 23:05:07 UTC

You may not agree with what happened but the fact is you said that a girl who gets drunk and brings it on herself will be less traumatized then the one who gets pulled into an ally. thats not true necesarilly. It would be quite a shock on a person to wake up and find theyd had sex with a random person while they were drunk. They would feel degraded and dirty and helpless becuase they had no control. And to add to that, another senario. what if your dating a guy and you have had sex before but you dont want to and he does. He forces or guilt trips you into doing what he wants at that moment so he can have fulfilment. That is equally rape. All these situations put a women in a defenseless position whether by force or cohersion. They all can leave a woman or even a man feeling deeply emotionally traumatized and degraded and that feeling can last for a long time even never leave and ruin future relationships. So there is no difference, rape is rape wheither done by someone you know or who you dont in any senario. unless a person is sober ( ... )

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