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[celticpunxie]

Current events:

I think we are about to see some astronomic changes in our world now with the lastest developments in the news.  First, with Terri Shiavo's death, I'm not really sure what this is goingto spell for our culture. Our society already has an unbelievably sketchy viewpoint of the dignity of the individual. With the Shiavo scandal, I'm

Comments

[blueyezsm]

Not to make waves honey, but I think it was WAY past Terri's time to go. It was a crime keeping her on life support as long as she was. I know a lot of people say it "wasn't her time" but any time she had was a result of science, not God. He was trying to call her home when she had her heart attack...and when she went brain dead...but doctors stopped the natural process of death. I suppose it's the choice of each person but I don't think life support is really "living"

And as far as the porn goes... I don't like it any more than you do...but that's the separation of church and state. The last time America messed with it people were burning "witches".

[celticpunxie]

Terri's case is an interesting study when it comes it comes to drawing the line between what's "living". Terri was not on life support like some other famous cases. In cases where someone is basically dead and machines stop the dying process, like respirators and whatever they call the things that pump the heart...well, the ethics there are incredibly sketchy (I'm thinking non-existent). But Terri was not on a resirator and her heart was beating just fine. She could respond to her parents and communicate which I'm pretty sure means she was not brain dead. (I know the doctors performed an autopsy to examine that question) She suffered brain damage because her heart stopped for a couple seconds so apparently she had the mental capacity of a four year old which you can see in the video from this link

[blueyezsm]

While I personally don't see any conclusive evidence from that tape, I understand where you're coming from. Yes her parents believe she can communicate but Terri's physicians have testified again and again that this isn't the case. Was there a system where Terri could blink here eyes for yes and no? If she really could communicate the courts could just ask her if she wanted her tube removed. She was considered, from all accounts I've seen, in a "persistent vegetative state." Her parents (not any member of the medical community) said that she could improve with "intensive therapy" but the evidence says she won't get any better. "Rat" or not her husband has the right (as next of kin) to make this decision. If we mess with the way things are we could potentially take those rights out of families hands

[celticpunxie]

Ooh, I just noticed I screwed up on terminology here. I wasn't very clear on what I meant with Terri's "communicating" ability. My bad. Since she suffered brain damage she can't communicate with an adult's full capacity thus the reason is was impossible to ask her what she thought of the matter. She was however responsive. I found this definition of the "persistent vegetative state" and based just on video clips, Terri was not

[blueyezsm]

If there were legitimate, verifiable reports saying that she was not in a persistent vegetative state, then you should send those to me, but last I checked the Florida supreme court would not order the reinsertion of her feeding tube because they couldn't find any. Also she didn't go though any pain when she finally passed. Her cerebral cortex had been replaced with cerebrospinal fluid. The only thing she had left was the right to die with dignity, and even that was taken away by her parents making her the center ring in a media circus. You and I are not "experts" on the case of Terri Shivo. The experts already made their decision

[celticpunxie]

If you won't take Florida's definition of "persistent vegetative state" alongside video clips of Terri as legitimate sources what do you consider reliable and what sources are you using?

After you get back with the sources thing, what do you say about calling a draw at least for a while? I know the reason this debate has gone on so long is because we're both loyal to what we believe to be right and we want to convince the other of that, but at this point is doesn't look like either of us is changing her mind. How about if either of us learns anything new on the case we'll update the other?

[blueyezsm]

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/schiavo/1203galrpt.pdf

Here's the link to the report givin to Jeb and the 6th circut, this is the source I pretty much stood by.

And to the members of the LJ world:
Don't think Miss Meghan and I are fighting. She's the bee's knees!

[celticpunxie]

And I think you're swell. It would take more than a debate to change that.

I read through about the first 11 pages of the report. Extrememly interesting, definately. At this point of the digging though I want to go at least one step deeper and get the medical reports that this report is based on. Because I cannot ignore the fact that several doctors claim that her brain damage was not to the point of PVS. I think I'll continue to do research because I am not completely satisfied with this answer.