(Untitled)

[celticpunxie]

Current events:

I think we are about to see some astronomic changes in our world now with the lastest developments in the news.  First, with Terri Shiavo's death, I'm not really sure what this is goingto spell for our culture. Our society already has an unbelievably sketchy viewpoint of the dignity of the individual. With the Shiavo scandal, I'm

Comments

[celticpunxie]

Terri's case is an interesting study when it comes it comes to drawing the line between what's "living". Terri was not on life support like some other famous cases. In cases where someone is basically dead and machines stop the dying process, like respirators and whatever they call the things that pump the heart...well, the ethics there are incredibly sketchy (I'm thinking non-existent). But Terri was not on a resirator and her heart was beating just fine. She could respond to her parents and communicate which I'm pretty sure means she was not brain dead. (I know the doctors performed an autopsy to examine that question) She suffered brain damage because her heart stopped for a couple seconds so apparently she had the mental capacity of a four year old which you can see in the video from this link:
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/ccb/videos/Terri_Big_Eyes.rm
Please forgive me if I seem really pushy about this case, but I think this case is really really important if just with the defintion of life. Life isn't something with vague boundaries.

As for the porn, I don't think that has anything to do with seperation of church and state. I'm concerned about the damage porn does to society and I'm exericising my right to protest, but I'm careful not to force my standards on anyone thus keeping the seperation. I just want some debate going on...I think debate is one of the best things that can happen. So thanks for not brushing it all off.

[blueyezsm]

While I personally don't see any conclusive evidence from that tape, I understand where you're coming from. Yes her parents believe she can communicate but Terri's physicians have testified again and again that this isn't the case. Was there a system where Terri could blink here eyes for yes and no? If she really could communicate the courts could just ask her if she wanted her tube removed. She was considered, from all accounts I've seen, in a "persistent vegetative state." Her parents (not any member of the medical community) said that she could improve with "intensive therapy" but the evidence says she won't get any better. "Rat" or not her husband has the right (as next of kin) to make this decision. If we mess with the way things are we could potentially take those rights out of families hands.

The mental capacity of a four year old? Where did you hear that? I certainly didn't get that from the tape but if you're read it somewhere, share the love. It just seems to me that Terri's parents were desperately looking for evidence, and that's what they found. (When Ryan says "Ba" I think he's reciting the Gettysburg address, a speech therapist sitting next to me knows he didn't.)

Porn is something that is protected by the first amendment, ironically the same one that allows us to worship any god we please.. Holiness of the body and of sex isn't something written in our constitution. No one can be "demeaned" in this country, *legally*, if they're a) willing b) not denied any rights and c) getting paid for it. Protest on, my friend.

I <3 debates and I <3 Meghan!

[celticpunxie]

Ooh, I just noticed I screwed up on terminology here. I wasn't very clear on what I meant with Terri's "communicating" ability. My bad. Since she suffered brain damage she can't communicate with an adult's full capacity thus the reason is was impossible to ask her what she thought of the matter. She was however responsive. I found this definition of the "persistent vegetative state" and based just on video clips, Terri was not.
The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.

A Dr. Ronald Cranford, as well as a couple others, did examine and interact with Terri...for about 45 minutes. Shannon, you've worked with people in therapy and you know it requires a heck of a lot more than 45 minutes of interacting to accomplish anything. "Contrary to Schiavo’s team, 14 independent medical professionals (6 of them neurologists) have given either statements or testimony that Terri is NOT in a Persistent Vegetative State. Additionally, there has never been any medical dispute of Terri’s ability to swallow."

And now back to the porn. My favorite. First, whenever porn is protested it's assumed that freedom of speech is being attacked. I'm not attempting to make porn illegal. I'm going for a greater awareness of the damage porn does. I've got to say I'm sure as heck not trying to protect the actors and actresses in the porn. Um, that's quite their decision and more power to them. That's not the demeaning I'm worried about. It's the aftermath that take place in real life that I'm concerned about. Pedophiles, rapists and the like virtually all begin with porn. Hobbies like coin collecting don't have the same stats. And in a sense respect for the body is protected in the constitution where it says all men have the right of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Obviously the pursuit of happiness was at least temporarily infringed with the victims of pedophilia and rape by other citizens. I understand that shit happens and always will whether porn is down the street from me or not. But while crimes of sexual violence rises I'd like to do something rather than nothing. You know this issue is rather personal to me and you may think that I'm over-reaching here. It happens. But if there's a disease there's also a cause of that disease. You have to get to the source to fix the problem. Like I said, I'm not going to ban porn; I want people to be aware of what a dangerous problem it is.

[blueyezsm]

If there were legitimate, verifiable reports saying that she was not in a persistent vegetative state, then you should send those to me, but last I checked the Florida supreme court would not order the reinsertion of her feeding tube because they couldn't find any. Also she didn't go though any pain when she finally passed. Her cerebral cortex had been replaced with cerebrospinal fluid. The only thing she had left was the right to die with dignity, and even that was taken away by her parents making her the center ring in a media circus. You and I are not "experts" on the case of Terri Shivo. The experts already made their decision.

"There is a difference between having a disability like cerebral palsy or multiple sclerosis and having only basic brain stem functions remaining. Terri Schiavo blinks, she breathes, but she is not even aware of this. The video clips of her supposedly reacting to her parents are edited snippets from many hours of footage. Can we be one hundred per cent sure that she lacks all the faculties that made her human? No. But are those who make informed arguments based on scientific evidence really the enemy? Of course not."

By the way, I updated my journal.

[celticpunxie]

If you won't take Florida's definition of "persistent vegetative state" alongside video clips of Terri as legitimate sources what do you consider reliable and what sources are you using?

After you get back with the sources thing, what do you say about calling a draw at least for a while? I know the reason this debate has gone on so long is because we're both loyal to what we believe to be right and we want to convince the other of that, but at this point is doesn't look like either of us is changing her mind. How about if either of us learns anything new on the case we'll update the other?

[blueyezsm]

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/schiavo/1203galrpt.pdf

Here's the link to the report givin to Jeb and the 6th circut, this is the source I pretty much stood by.

And to the members of the LJ world:
Don't think Miss Meghan and I are fighting. She's the bee's knees!

[celticpunxie]

And I think you're swell. It would take more than a debate to change that.

I read through about the first 11 pages of the report. Extrememly interesting, definately. At this point of the digging though I want to go at least one step deeper and get the medical reports that this report is based on. Because I cannot ignore the fact that several doctors claim that her brain damage was not to the point of PVS. I think I'll continue to do research because I am not completely satisfied with this answer.