Tension, Conflict, Motivation, and Plot: Why the Story is About Dean and We Do Know Sam

[bowtrunckle]

I wrote a meta thingy! :)

There’s been avid discussion about Sam and Dean and which of them, if either, seems to be favored by Kripke as well as debate about “who is the story really about”. I’ve noticed there’s been a propensity for some self-proclaimed “Dean girls” and “Sam girls” to run circles around each other, trying to prove their points.

Comments

[yourlibrarian]

Watch the opening montage for “Mystery Spot” and you’ll see clips from “WiaWSNB” despite the fact the episodes didn’t share reoccurring characters outside of Sam and Dean nor were linked by a through-going plot thread.

That's very interesting. I'd originally thought those clips were in there to distract attention from the spoiler of the Trickster clips and I'd never paid attention to the connection.

I like the way you laid out the interrelationships of the mytharc and the internal motivations. I hadn't seen those arguments expressed before, but I would agree that they seem like misperceptions to me. I'd also argue that Dean did have something of a plot arc in S1 but it was buried in his motivational one. He had the role of reintroducing Sam to hunting and also to have his commitment to the family tested. But I think viewers more often catch on to action plots and less to emotional ones.

I kind of came to something a bit similar in a roundabout way.

[bowtrunckle]

Thanks for linking me to your meta. You didn't post that in LJ and I missed it, did you? I'm going to reply here because I don't have a IJ account and leaving an anonymous comment trips my stalker alarm

[yourlibrarian]

You didn't post that in LJ and I missed it, did you? I'm going to reply here because I don't have a IJ account and leaving an anonymous comment trips my stalker alarm.

No problem, I don't mind anonymous comments (and anyway if you signed it, it wouldn't be :>). I did actually, about a year ago, but when I was going to post it to my IJ account I realized that I should update it since S3 had brought about some changes.

I had no idea there was even a "younger brother". My response when I first saw Sam was "WHO IS THAT?!".

Heh, I guess I did know about the brothers even before watching the show because there was so much talk about how slashy it was, and that seemed to be the real draw for people. And the relationship was definitely what drew me in, so I'm firmly in the bibro camp ;>

the motivation tiger --whose central drive is usually another character--is stuck being reactionary without the illusion of choiceYes, I suspect this is what is probably behind a lot of the complaints about Dean's role. I remember hearing a lot of

[bowtrunckle]

if you signed it, it wouldn't be

Yes, very true. I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get notified of your reply, though. And I'm lazy and don't want to recheck a post to make sure I'm not being accidentally rude by appearing to have abandoned a conversation. ;P

And the relationship was definitely what drew me in, so I'm firmly in the bibro camp

Funny enough, I wasn't aware of the slash vibe, but I did think they were gay. When I discovered they were brothers twenty minutes or so later, I had a serious "Oh!" moment.

Someone here in the comments coined the term "bibrolar" to describe those in the "bibro" camp. *dies laughing* I can't help it, any derivative of "bibro" reduces me to giggles; I'm not sure why. This fandom kills me XD.

However on those ensemble shows everyone reacted to the main character. Perhaps with SPN there's more friction because the set-up of the show makes them seem like equal characters whereas Dean often has spent a lot of time reacting. To see him only that way though seems to me to sell the

[yourlibrarian]

Yes, very true. I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get notified of your reply, though

Ah right, yes, that is a problem.

I did think they were gay. When I discovered they were brothers twenty minutes or so later, I had a serious "Oh!" moment.

LOL! I'll bet. Oh that's funny. You know, a few months back a friend who doesn't even know the show exists stopped by my LJ while we were on the phone and said "Why do you have two gay guys on your page?" I don't think she understood why I found that so amusing.

"Bibrolar" seems very apt. I think it should go into the SPN lexicon.

Too bad I already wrote this meta otherwise I would add that as a corollary

Next year you can revisit the post -- then you'll be able to add all sorts of corollaries :D

Even though I think these comparisons aren't true, I think they're made because it's natural to think of pairs of two as being opposites ends of the spectrum (even if they're not) because there's not a third or fourth party to provide another measure of relativity.Very good point, yes. It's the

[bowtrunckle]

"Why do you have two gay guys on your page?"

I just peeked at your header. LOL! Wow, your friend got the gay vibe from just that picture (it's a lovely picture, btw)? The boys' chemistry seems to just radiate off of them. Actually, the reason I thought they were gay (for 20 minutes) was the distinct Scully/Mulder feel of their relationship ... almost UST, but more snarky and exasperated rather than full-out denial/suppression. Heh.

They get loaded with all sorts of baggage that doesn't allow the characters to be individuals.Yes, OR worse, they're type cast. I was channel surfing last week and ran across a scene on some show with a middle-aged black woman with short hair, wearing stone earring and talking in a mystic voice. She was a psychic. Good old Missouri reincarnated (or maybe Missouri was reincarnated). It made me chuckle, then wish Missouri would show up and heckle Dean some more

[yourlibrarian]

Yeah, I couldn't figure out where it came from . I'd actually expected her to make a completely different comments because a very long time ago *cough* we were both in Duran Duran fandom and Jensen in that picture always makes me think of Simon le Bon. But I suppose I'm always seeing things like that. The other day I was thinking how much John Edwards and John Barrowman look alike.

or maybe Missouri was reincarnated

Good God, yes, although had the part been cast differently I suspect it would have been more archetypal than sterotypical.

then wish Missouri would show up and heckle Dean some more

Hee! I got this image of Missouri saying nothing (but picking up everything about the Deal), just standing there with her hands on her hips, staring at Dean disapprovingly until he began to squirm and bark "What?"

We're taught in school to "compare and contrast"I could even see it being a genetic tendency, so that individuals in groups specialize and become particularly skilled in valued traits, then pass those traits and lessons on

[bowtrunckle]

we were both in Duran Duran fandom and Jensen in that picture always makes me think of Simon le Bon

Duran Duran has a fandom or would that be "bandom"? ;) I actually love Duran Duran. In fact I'm listening to "Come Undone" right now ... a song I associate with "Mystery Spot" because of the lyrics. I never thought of the young le Bon/Ackles resemblance, but their mouths and cheekbones are similar.

The other day I was thinking how much John Edwards and John Barrowman look alike.

No. Really? *does a google image search*

OMG. That is uncanny. LOL!!!

[yourlibrarian]

OMG. That is uncanny.

So I'm not the only one who thinks so then! I first noticed it when I was watching the Colbert Report. (He did a great job doing his version of Colbert's the Word). Yeah I could see Javier Bardem. I did think he looked rather like JDM.

Duran Duran has a fandom or would that be "bandom"?

Oh it does/did. Back in the 80s there were zines, both news oriented and fanfic ones. Rumor was the band members had copies in their homes too. One fan doing an interview reported that JT had a zine on his coffee table that had a romantic manip of him and Nick Rhodes on it. This is the oldest site I know of: http://there.indyramp.com/

young le Bon/Ackles resemblance, but their mouths and cheekbones are similar.

To be honest, I'd never noticed it until I saw my header. I'd say it was their eyes as well, both of them have huge ones and look most alike when they're being intense. Some comparisons: ... )

[bowtrunckle]

He did a great job doing his version of Colbert's the Word

Jet ski! Someone on my flist circulated that video. I was highly amused.

JT had a zine on his coffee table that had a romantic manip of him and Nick Rhodes on it.

Heh. That's fan appreciation for you. Almost along the same lines of Jim Beaver's "I read John/Bobby" shirt.

I'd say it was their eyes as well

O.O Mmm. *nods* That first picture is very nice. You know, I think it's the cheekbones. I really noticed JA's lovely cheekbones because of the lighting in the Dean vs. Dean dream sequence.

Thanks for the eye candy. :)

[yourlibrarian]

Almost along the same lines of Jim Beaver's "I read John/Bobby" shirt.

I was floored by that one. Who knew he had that much of a sense of humor? I laughed pretty hard over Sandy's "cries his way through sex" shirt too.

[llywela13]

Replying here, since you directed me here from my comment elsewhere, and I'm too lazy to go find that and then try to meld the two...

I have this verbosity "problem", but I suppose the length of this post probably made that quite obvious.
Wordiness rules, yay *G*

I think that's why Sam and Dean have been able to evolve into such round characters. And the more complex and nuanced a character is, the easier it is to be drawn to them and to stay interested. Perhaps that's part of the reason for the show's passionate following?

Interesting you bring up the postitives of a small cast. Yourlibrarian and I were just babbling about the flip side of the coin in a parallel comment thread:Which brings me here

[bowtrunckle]

I watched from the Pilot

Ah, a fan from day one. Excellent. I wished I would've listened to my friend who kept insisting I watch "this show with Dean" back in 2005. It took me two years to get my act in gear.

I've never been this interested in a TV-based fandom before, so I've really enjoyed digging into the visual aspects of the show and other such things that aren't present in literary-based fandoms. Of course, story structure and character analysis is fun no matter what medium you're in.

now that they are reunited as adults, they have to re-learn how to relate to one another.Excellent point. Having Sam estranged from John and Dean for years imparted just enough separation to make things tense and slightly uncomfortable when the boys reunited without completely breaking the family bond. So in that way, Sam and Dean were almost strangers with a hugely complicated history who clearly cared about each other but didn't quite know how to make things work ... a nice push-pull tension

[llywela13]

Like almost everything in this fandom, I think the converse of what you said is also true.
LOLs. Man, it seems like every time I recap an argument between the brothers, I have to note that 'they are both right and they are both wrong'. It's the beauty of this show, that each character, our boys especially, has a fully rounded perspective formed by his background and life experiences, and they each interpret the world around them according to their own prejudices and preconceptions. Shades of grey abound! And there is something of truth and something of flaw in every argument.

Not only have these 3 years been about Sam discovering who Dean is, but it's also been about Dean learning that Sam is not just his little brother.Yes, completely. I truncated my argument in the last comment to focus solely on Sam, since his learning curve back at the start of the show was the most overt and obvious, as our perspective character. And because I was going way off topic, and getting rather long and rambly for comments. But yes, the shifting dynamic

[bowtrunckle]

Amen to everything you said. :)

Would you mind if I friended you?

Oh, not at all. I'm always up for discussion about The Show with other enthusiastic people! I'll expedite the process and friend you. :) Feel free to drop by and chat anytime, my journal has an open door policy.

there's still plenty of Show still ahead of us.

Yes, thankfully! And hopefully this will be the case for quite a while.

[llywela13]

Cool.

*friends back*

Just in time for new Show! My journal = also very open door.