(Untitled)

[alisa_ivanovna]

Yesterday I got into an unpleasant discussion with another LJ user on the topic of Child Protection Agencies and the removal of children from their homes wither upon the determination of, or while the situation is being investigated whether the child is safer being removed from the parents or the current place of residence

Comments

[vremyavpered]

Aliska,
i thought up long and hard before replying, thought up very long replies, and point-to-point replies, and what's-not.

However, all of it can be summed up by this:

if even a fraction of the CPS and people associated with CPS think along the lines of what you've written here, I'm terrified, for myself -- and for the child i am about to "squeeze out", even though, of course, this is not at all about me.

That's all.

[vremyavpered]

no, i guess i can't shut up.
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generation

this is of what this mindset reminds me.

[alisa_ivanovna]

well, that just shows how ignorant you are.

[alisa_ivanovna]

No, it's not about you, and if you terrors are realized at any point of the life of your soon to be born child, I'll take the damage done to you and your family under account when formulating my opinions.

I also think it is rather cruel and insensitive of you to use language that refers to a situation that you know caused me a lot of grief, and that I very much regretted being a part of , and "squeezing" it into conversation. It feels very much like a deliberate stab in the back.

Yes, most people who work with or for or around CPS think along the lines that I do. Though most of them are a lot less educated and intelligent, and aren't as willing to consider opposing sides or arguments.

[vremyavpered]

stab in the back it is not;

i was astonished to find that the philosophy behind that one incident is not just that "one incident" but -- indeed, a philosophy. I felt I have a right to let you know I feel this way -- that's why this comment is to you, but not to everyone and their mother in my LJ, read by angerona and others, or in angerona's or moretp's or ant_fugue's journal.

i am yet again amazed at your self-righteousness, however, I am sitting on my hands not to keep spewing rants -- because i know they will lead nowhere but real-life disgruntled feelings.

I am not picking on your fine education, on your qualifications to give pronouncements you've just given, I am also not insulting your fine level of intelligence. You, however, feel yourself free from such restraints. Fine. Пускай на твоей совести будет.

[alisa_ivanovna]

my self righteousness is motivated by the fact that on Monday I am going to go into a classroom full of kids who have been taken away from their parents and try to make their life better. and hope that when thy grow up, their children will not have to have to be taken away.

[aregjan]

my self righteousness is motivated by the fact that on Monday I am going to go into a classroom full of kids who have been taken away from their parents and try to make their life better.
**********************
This only proves that your opinion is entirely based on extreme emotions due to exposure to the most extreme cases. As such, your opinion cannot be either objective or balanced. It's like basing a law on the
opinion of a murder victim's relative -- that way all murderers would be tortured and publicly hanged.

[yelya]

This only proves that your opinion is entirely based on extreme emotions due to exposure to the most extreme cases. As such, your opinion cannot be either objective or balanced.

Exactly the same thing can be said of Aliska's opponents.

[aregjan]

The difference is that her opponents do not make absolutist statements -- first of all. Second of all, as a parent I can imagine (at least as much as a social worker) very well what child abuse means (simply because I know how fragile children are, and how much they can suffer) -- on the other hand, a social worker who has no kids has NO CLUE the amount of agony that both parents and children can go through in case of a mistaken removal. And Aliska's statements prove this very well.

[yelya]

The difference is that her opponents do not make absolutist statements

That's because it's Aliska, and she always makes absolutist statements. If you're not ready to hear them - don't argue with her! :)

on the other hand, a social worker who has no kids has NO CLUE the amount of agony that both parents and children can go through in case of a mistaken removal.

Aregjan, I think that for the last several months and/or years the people whom I would call "da parents" in LJ have been brought to the point of sexual arousal by discussing CPS and using these conversations to instill fear of it in themselves, which is, in 99.99999999% of the cases, is not warranted. So, again - your opinion is based at least on as much emotion as her is.

[aregjan]

I don't see where the hell you get this.

[vremyavpered]

Aliska's opponents don't personally throw personal and emotional insults at her, but are trying to reason.

don't you think there's a difference?

[yelya]

No, they're not.
http://alisa-ivanovna.livejournal.com/146039.html?thread=401783#t401783

[vremyavpered]

well, that's just your personal biased emotional opinion, daahring.

but yes, yes, yes, of course, of course.

[geish_a]

+1

[alisa_ivanovna]

so I am not competent to understand the feelings of parents because I do not have my own kids; and I am not competent to advocate for my students because I am too emotionally invested...

Areg, with all my love, stick to something other that logic.