Comments | zimshan: SPN - 6.06 & 6.07 promo - I've got questions, surrounding the promo spill...

zimshan

SPN - 6.06 & 6.07 promo - I've got questions, surrounding the promo spill...

Nov 01, 2010 18:40

Well I’m glad after four stalled weeks I finally got that post done at the perfect time, eh?

( SPN - 5.06 & 5.07 PROMO - So that answered some questions, but guess what? Now I just have more...[semi-thinky thoughts] )

spn: s6, spn, spn: meta-ish_attempts

Comments 25

deathisyourart November 1 2010, 22:57:16 UTC

I'm a bad person who isn't going to read or answer this yet because I am doing evil, evil homework, but I did want to say "CHECK YOUR INBOX"!

zimshan November 1 2010, 23:45:21 UTC

OMG, YES! I JUST GOT IT! REPLIES WILL BE FORTHCOMING! XDD

ash48 November 1 2010, 23:03:15 UTC

Yes yes. It's so weird for me. I had not been spoiled for the next episode when I went on my squee rant for this episode. If I had I think I would have felt thing differently. Well, I do now.. so yeah. Most definitely ( ... )

abrakadabrah November 1 2010, 23:34:39 UTC

See - Sam is being manipulative. Hmmm... is that an emotion?

No, it's a rational way to get what you want based on knowing how to deter the others and cause them to blame themselves. Witness Sam telling Dean that he froze - with the result that Dean blamed himself entirely for the misunderstanding, and for imputing such bad motives to Sam. With Dean lost in the guilt and self loathing, new Sam is free to be Sam again.

ash48 November 1 2010, 23:40:38 UTC

Oooh yes, I know being manipulative in itself isn't an emotion but I wondered if the need to use it in order to get want you want is being feed by some sort of emotion, feeling or need.

*sigh* Don't mind me. I'm grasping at straws.
Thanks. <3

zimshan November 2 2010, 00:36:40 UTC

Heh, I think Ash was just being funny there with the color meta motivations. But, I have to ask, you're blaming Sam for Dean blaming himself? That's kinda convoluted, don't you think? And honestly, it requires Sam to understand Dean and his emotions enough to actively manipulate just for that purpose, which I don't believe at this moment he has the capacity to do. I wouldn't imagine Sam knew he was immune to Veritas's curse, either. Instead, I imagine Sam simply responded in such a way that he hoped the curse might let him respond. He picks his words very slowly and carefully, as if he wasn't sure what might happen. I'd assume his intended result was simply to avoid telling Dean the truth. Which, um, given how he reacted when he did find out, was probably a smart survival tactic.

Thread 9

abrakadabrah November 1 2010, 23:29:24 UTC

t that some evil goddess just told you your brother’s not human and you’ve had a rough week and all but he also just confessed himself and begged for your help.

Sam confessed because he was cornered; and his rational brain knows that the puppy eyes always work on Dean and the "I need help" line. He came clean, but it seemed completely expedient and self serving at that point, when Dean was pointing a knife at him and looked lethal.

Given that this Sam just casually exploded any chance for a life that Dean had with cruelty and complete insoucience, and meanwhile Dean doesn't even have his brother with him in a meaningful sense,, yeah, he exploded. Sam, himself, triggered this more cruel version of killer Dean that we had this week by deciding it was a good idea to have him turn into a vampire and experience that world first hand. Big surprise that Dean is exhibiting an edge that he haven't seen since season 3 but it's now turned towards Sam, not the world.

zimshan November 2 2010, 00:25:47 UTC

Um, okay, actually I was just talking about my reaction to it all. It's totally debatable based on your own reaction, but for me, I haven't winced like that since Lucifer pratically popped Dean's one eye out. But that was LUCIFER. Seeing Dean in that total flipped switch rage mode, for me as a viewer, was a seriously horrifying way to end the episode to me. The episode closed and my brain went THAT WAS REAL DEAN. WHO JUST DID THAT TO PARTIAL SAM. I've had Sam figured out for weeks, but it was Dean this week that surprised the hell out of me. That's my reaction, I can't change that.

abrakadabrah November 2 2010, 01:31:33 UTC

Yeah - it was clearly meant as a vivid, visual callback to Lucifer's beatdown of Dean. No question. Just as Dean's unvamping vision sequence, which climaxed in seeing Sam stand still and let him be turned with a twist of pleasure glancing across his lips was a direct callback to Sam's vision sequence of himself and Dean that climaxed in Dean's embrace after he had given up his soul for him. These two sets of actions were inversions of each other ( ... )

counteragent November 2 2010, 01:37:53 UTC

...and I agree with you!

That's why the episode was so terribly great, IMO.

Thread 5

counteragent November 2 2010, 01:34:48 UTC

I totally think he resembles an angel more than anything too. I actually wanted to make that more explicit in my Sam vid but it didn't quiiiite fit.

My post about Sam becoming an Alpha monster was purely conjecture about where they could take it, not that he was acting like a monster. If anything, I think that his attempts to reassure Dean despite his lack of emotional engagement are testament to the fact that he is not a monster. (I can't believe he's putting on such a show fot strategic purposes...I can't really see why he'd need Dean to hunt.)

zimshan November 2 2010, 01:57:00 UTC

I totally think he resembles an angel more than anything too. I actually wanted to make that more explicit in my Sam vid but it didn't quiiiite fit.
Okay, good, so it's not just me and my wacky crazy brain then!

My post about Sam becoming an Alpha monster was purely conjecture about where they could take it, not that he was acting like a monster.
Oh no! I get where your poll was coming from! In fact, I'm still ruminating over that one! It's in a tab...somewhere. But I too was thinking how this could be related to the alpha thing!

If anything, I think that his attempts to reassure Dean despite his lack of emotional engagement are testament to the fact that he is not a monster. (I can't believe he's putting on such a show fot strategic purposes...I can't really see why he'd need Dean to hunt.)Ahhhh. Yes, THAT, is what I've been thinking along the lines of. I keep going back to that "it's just better when you're around" thing, and my hope that being around Dean could progressively help his soul situation. Perhaps I just really don't ( ... )

counteragent November 3 2010, 02:26:05 UTC

I would love a slow climb back to life.

But then again I might be OK with a reset button even if it's hella cheap BECAUSE I MISS MY SAMMYCAKES SO MUCH. :( :(

Also I want Dean to be a dad so freaking much it hurts.

It's so weird how I want different things for them now (than each other). Sadly, I think my ship has sailed. D:

sockkpuppett November 2 2010, 02:15:14 UTC

What I find bewildering (and I think I might expound upon it in my LJ if I ever work up the energy--tough week) is the performance Sam put on for Dean during the reveal. If he can't feel anything, how can he get so emotionally worked up to *ask* Dean for help, replete with puppy-dog face? It's like, how can Sam beg for help when Sam's NOT THERE?

I think that Sam has become Other. At this point anyway. Dean believes that it's a thing wearing Sam's body, and I can't fault his logic. I was horrified at the beatdown, but I totally understood it--this wasn't Sam. This was a monster, and Dean is a hunter, and OMG, you know? I think Dean had to take Sam down and out, but then the Rage Explosion sort of put me into a shock spiral. I'm still in it. OMG. *hands*

ETA: Totally thinking on the angel thing, as well. Yeah.

zimshan November 2 2010, 03:09:13 UTC

I totally get the bewildering thing! It really played a number on me, and then the rage explosion just, yes shock spiral is a good word for it. I still can't really make sense of it. So I think up soul logistics questions instead! ;)

Crossing my fingers for you that your week turns out for the better. And I'd love to hear more thoughts of yours on the angel thing, if you get the chance. :)

ash48 November 2 2010, 04:53:27 UTC

Oooh,ooo, ooh just had to leap in here because *phew* this is totally my reasoning for my utter squee at the last episode. I had no doubt in my mind that it's something "Other" than Sam. And so the beating made sense. And Dean's reaction. And Sam as a new type of "monster" - not Sam is a monster. It all made goddamn sense and now, if it turns out it's just Sam without a soul... I just.... whaaaaaa. I would see it all so differently.

I don't know where to place my thoughts..

(wow, that's twice you've nail my thoughts with better words than I can express. <33)

abrakadabrah November 2 2010, 14:00:18 UTC

If he can't feel anything, how can he get so emotionally worked up to *ask* Dean for help, replete with puppy-dog face? It's like, how can Sam beg for help when Sam's NOT THERE? Yeah - that's what caused the rage explosion, IMO. Sam put on the puppy eyes look and went all vulnerable little brother - but a lot of that, if not all of it, was a performance that he seemed to be in as much control of as his rational explanation to Dean earlier that he had frozen. Recently vamped Dean standing there with a knife in his hand and murder in his eyes - he had to come out with the truth then and something to get Dean to help him ( ... )