using characters to write other dialects

[moa1918]

I've often heard that one of the advantages of characters is that any Chinese dialect could be written the same way, even though the dialects may be pronounced totally differently

Comments

[yingna]

In Shanghainese, they replace some words with other words. But, I think for the most part, they keep it the same (I have a friend who's Shanghainese). But, they are still the same characters, but perhaps with different meanings. Except, it's not for all the words. Only a select few, I would think.

But, in most dialects, if not all (I guess excluding Shanghainese), the characters are the same, but the pronunciation different.

Though, in different dialects, the grammar might be slightly different and the way you say things might be different so the way you right something (like, how it's structured) might be different, but I think the characters mean the same thing.

[moa1918]

Thanks!
Moa

[gaojun]

It's complicated.

The standard written Chinese language is based on 普通話. So when speakers of non-Mandarin dialects write Chinese, they generally write in standard written 普通話. Non-Mandarin dialects have lots of words that are not cognate to the word of the same meaning in 普通話, or even do not correspond to any known character. Thus, when people want to transcribe a dialect, they use phonetic borrowings of other characters that are pronounced the same, or they even invent new ones (written colloquial Cantonese is the best example of this).

However, it is also possible to read written 普通話 aloud, using dialect pronunciations. People can understand it, but it doesn't sound "natural." In Hong Kong, they do this all the time.

[daiv]

think "standard english". when you read and write formal english, its fairly standard accross the english speaking world. we use the same spelling and grammar, with slight regional fluctuations. when spoken though, the story changes. i for one do not talk how i write, and most people do not. think jamaican or scotland. both have fully developed, non standard grammars, but when they read and write, the general rule is not to compose in jamaican creole or scotts english.

the limitation in chinese is that there are no characters --as has been stated-- for dialectal words. in english, we can just make up nonstandardized spellings, eg. "couldna" (scots) "neba" (jamaican). this is why it gets messy and complicated in chinese, but languages spoken over vast territories always have literary, colloquial and dialectal standards.

[boonleong]

However, it is also possible to read written 普通話 aloud, using dialect pronunciations. People can understand it, but it doesn't sound "natural."

Classic texts, Tang poetry, etc can be read in dialect pronunciations, and there are people with the opinion that most poetry sounds better in other dialects.

Even today, a lot of Cantopop lyrics are written in Mandarin but sung in Cantonese.

[moa1918]

Even today, a lot of Cantopop lyrics are written in Mandarin but sung in Cantonese.

Doesn't it get harder too understand that way?

Moa

[boonleong]

Well, look at the Wikipedia article for written Cantonese. It's more or less the same deal with any other non-Mandarin dialect. A large proportion of the vocabulary is written the same as in 普通話, but it's the characters that play purely grammatical roles that differ, and they usually invent new characters for these.

[zweckanschauer]

Yeah I especially like how "mou" in Cantonese is written as 有 without the two strokes inside for informal texts. A friend from HK says that the formal way of writing it should be 無 though.

[gaojun]

The reason for that is because the "有 without the two strokes inside" is a phonetic fusing of 無 + 有, so the tone is different from that of 無.

[moa1918]

That site on Cantonese is really informative. :)
Moa