Patch says that when the original angels Fell for *sigh* tempting Eve, the entire thing was done quietly and thus none of the other angels knew what being a fallen angel entailed.
Yes. Lucifer's temptation of Eve and thus humanity's subsequent banishment from Eden was a very quiet event and didn't even make page three of Heaven's newsletter. And I had no idea the temptation of Eve was done by a lot of angels! See, I thought Lucifer fell for his pride and trying to take over Heaven, and he took a third of the angels with him. Learn something new every day.
This idiot apparently saw "Angels are forbidden to fornicate with human women" and immediately thought "FORBIDDEN ROMANCE, YAY!!!!"
No. Just. No. Not even the Sexy Bitch God would approve of this bullshit, and he was out of his mind.
"This idiot apparently saw "Angels are forbidden to fornicate with human women" and immediately thought 'FORBIDDEN ROMANCE, YAY!!!!'"
Well, according to her website, it's more like she saw fallen beings who are, by most standards, demons in all but name and thought "An excuse for a bad-boy sexy romance! :D"
Jesus, you weren't kidding about the prologue thing, weren't you?! I don't even remember the prologue!
Oh, of course Dabria is the bad guy. Uh huh, she's the threatening one. What an awesome moral to teach young girls? That guy who stalks you, belittles you, and abuses you? Your soulmate. That woman who tells you to stay away from your stalker and has done absolutely nothing otherwise, even better that she's a THERAPIST, oh, she's an evil bitch who wants to ruin your life. Thanks, Fitzpatrick, it's not like the Mental Health and Domestic Abuse Associations are having a hard enough time trying to convince these girl to seek help with out your help!
I really hope, when you rant about Dabria, you touch on the very 'anti-mental health' thing. It's subtle, but it still speaks volumes. It's just as bad as when Bella based psychotheraphy in New Moon. Pisses me off to no end, that kind of thinking kills people, in my most humble opinion.
Fallen Angels--the Mormon VersiongehayiSeptember 30 2011, 10:44:21 UTC
Patch says that when the original angels Fell for *sigh* tempting Eve, the entire thing was done quietly and thus none of the other angels knew what being a fallen angel entailed.
Before this earth was organized so that we could live on it, we lived very happily as spirit children of our heavenly parents. Our spirits looked like the physical bodies that we have now, and each spirit had a distinct personality with strengths and weaknesses. While in this spirit world, we grew until we could no longer progress without a physical body. We wanted to prove our worthiness to become like our Heavenly Father, and we were anxious to receive a physical body and to enter a time of testing.This explains why Patch wants to become human. It has nothing to do with admiring humanity; he's basically stuck in kindergarten, and he has to become human if he's to advance and gain any spiritual power and authority. Also, please
( ... )
Re: Fallen Angels--the Mormon Versionzelda_queenSeptember 30 2011, 12:51:36 UTC
"This explains why Patch wants to become human. It has nothing to do with admiring humanity; he's basically stuck in kindergarten, and he has to become human if he's to advance and gain any spiritual power and authority. Also, please remember--for a Mormon male, "become like your Heavenly Father" is not advice to be kind, merciful, just, compassionate, etc. It means, 'Do God's will, become spiritually advanced, and someday, you too will be a god with a planet of your own.' If you're a Mormon man, humanity is just a step on the road to to eventual godhood
( ... )
Re: Fallen Angels--the Mormon VersiongehayiSeptember 30 2011, 16:42:32 UTC
Because according to that oh-so-helpful website Nora visited, the first fallen angels were thrown out for their lust for human women and power and wanting to have dominion over Earth.
It sounds like she's conflating the story of the original Fallen with the story of a group of second-wave fallen angels--the Grigori, or Watchers. Here's what I found out about them, courtesy of an urban fantasy fanfic I wrote:
The Grigori.
There's not a lot about them. Hell's bells, most of the references to them nowadays are in fantasy lit or roleplaying games. However, they also show up in a few apocryphal writings. Basically, they're fallen angels--not the original Fallen, but the guys who ended up having sex with mortal women around the time of Noah. Yeah, that Noah. Nowadays they're supposed to be demon spirits who are eternally hungering and thirsting for food and drink. And they'll do just about anything to get what they want. Including possessing a body and evicting the soul of the original owner.If Fitzpatrick is mixing up the story of
( ... )
Re: Fallen Angels--the Mormon Versionzelda_queenOctober 1 2011, 02:56:19 UTC
Yeah, that description is pretty much these fallen angels to a T. Except that their motives are stolen from the original Fallen. So yeah, she's an idiot.
Actually, I suspect the Book of Enoch is closer to Meyer's lobishomen/Quileute mythology. Fitzpatrick probably found it, thought it was cool, and added her own "twists" to it, not bothering to consider that it's someone's actual faith she's messing with. -_-
Maybe I just missed it, but did Fitzpatrick explain how the body-possessing works in this universe? Patch says he wants to possess a body, but I was under the impression he already was, because, well...how else is he walking around on earth? I figured angels couldn't walk around on this plane since they're spiritual beings, but are her angels allowed to? Are they not spiritual? Did Fitzpatrick ever explain this?
Also, a Denny's in Hyrule? I must read that fic...
From what I can gather, fallen angels get a sort-of body of their own, which lets them walk and pick up stuff, but doesn't let them feel anything. A human or part-human body lets them feel things. I really don't know. That's all the explanation we get.
Oh, it's an awesome fic! XD It's basically like if the Legend of Zelda was in a modern-day setting, instead of a medieval one. It's still its own universe, but similar to ours. And the characters are so much fun! I'm just disappointed, because the author stopped her Zelda fics partway through the sequel. (Even more disappointing is that before she made that decision, she posted her version of Veran and Onox, who would have been the villains in another sequel, and now it looks like we won't get them. :( )
*massages temples* I really don't get these Suethors and their aversion to anything mythical or world-building. Figuring out how your angels possess bodies or come down to earth sounds like the fun part of the writing process to me. Don't get me wrong, designing characters is awesome, but it seems like all they care about is making their Stus as angsty as possible and their Sues as yooneek as possible. That's why Patch being an angel doesn't really matter in this story. Or Edward being a vampire. Or even Zoey Redbird being a vampire. They have no mythological aspects or world-building to back them up. They're just pretty dudes and girls who you can't hurt. What they are really doesn't have any meaning to the story. They could be fairies and no one would be the wiser.
I'd also like to add that being unable to feel things is a real disease. gehayi commented on beautifully here, and I highly recommend reading it. For those who don't or can't though, the upshot is that being unable to feel things in reality causes a ton of health-related issues. You don't know if you've sliced your finger open with a knife, or if you're cutting off the circulation in your leg the way you're sitting, or if your skin is being burnt. And because you can't feel it, you don't know those things are happening, so you don't see medical treatment. You constantly need to check yourself over. In the typical Mary Sue fashion though, Patch isn't given any of those drawbacks. That he can't feel if he needs to go to the bathroom or not? Never brought up. That he could be shanked and not notice that he's bleeding to death? Apparently can't happen, seeing as he doesn't have a human body. Fitzpatrick had a fine set-up for a genuine reason for Patch to hate having no sense of feeling, and it's almost completely ignored.Now I can't stop
( ... )
Oh, definitely. She could kick his ass with her eyes closed. After what she went through in the books, going up against Patch would be like a walk in the park.
Comments 35
Yes. Lucifer's temptation of Eve and thus humanity's subsequent banishment from Eden was a very quiet event and didn't even make page three of Heaven's newsletter. And I had no idea the temptation of Eve was done by a lot of angels! See, I thought Lucifer fell for his pride and trying to take over Heaven, and he took a third of the angels with him. Learn something new every day.
This idiot apparently saw "Angels are forbidden to fornicate with human women" and immediately thought "FORBIDDEN ROMANCE, YAY!!!!"
No. Just. No. Not even the Sexy Bitch God would approve of this bullshit, and he was out of his mind.
Reply
Well, according to her website, it's more like she saw fallen beings who are, by most standards, demons in all but name and thought "An excuse for a bad-boy sexy romance! :D"
Reply
Oh, of course Dabria is the bad guy. Uh huh, she's the threatening one. What an awesome moral to teach young girls? That guy who stalks you, belittles you, and abuses you? Your soulmate. That woman who tells you to stay away from your stalker and has done absolutely nothing otherwise, even better that she's a THERAPIST, oh, she's an evil bitch who wants to ruin your life. Thanks, Fitzpatrick, it's not like the Mental Health and Domestic Abuse Associations are having a hard enough time trying to convince these girl to seek help with out your help!
Fucking idiot.
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Enter Mormon theology. This version--based on Abraham 3: 21-28 and Moses 4:1-4--is for kids, but I'll take what I can get.
Before this earth was organized so that we could live on it, we lived very happily as spirit children of our heavenly parents. Our spirits looked like the physical bodies that we have now, and each spirit had a distinct personality with strengths and weaknesses. While in this spirit world, we grew until we could no longer progress without a physical body. We wanted to prove our worthiness to become like our Heavenly Father, and we were anxious to receive a physical body and to enter a time of testing.This explains why Patch wants to become human. It has nothing to do with admiring humanity; he's basically stuck in kindergarten, and he has to become human if he's to advance and gain any spiritual power and authority. Also, please ( ... )
Reply
Reply
It sounds like she's conflating the story of the original Fallen with the story of a group of second-wave fallen angels--the Grigori, or Watchers. Here's what I found out about them, courtesy of an urban fantasy fanfic I wrote:
The Grigori.
There's not a lot about them. Hell's bells, most of the references to them nowadays are in fantasy lit or roleplaying games. However, they also show up in a few apocryphal writings. Basically, they're fallen angels--not the original Fallen, but the guys who ended up having sex with mortal women around the time of Noah. Yeah, that Noah. Nowadays they're supposed to be demon spirits who are eternally hungering and thirsting for food and drink. And they'll do just about anything to get what they want. Including possessing a body and evicting the soul of the original owner.If Fitzpatrick is mixing up the story of ( ... )
Reply
Actually, I suspect the Book of Enoch is closer to Meyer's lobishomen/Quileute mythology. Fitzpatrick probably found it, thought it was cool, and added her own "twists" to it, not bothering to consider that it's someone's actual faith she's messing with. -_-
Reply
Also, a Denny's in Hyrule? I must read that fic...
Reply
Oh, it's an awesome fic! XD It's basically like if the Legend of Zelda was in a modern-day setting, instead of a medieval one. It's still its own universe, but similar to ours. And the characters are so much fun! I'm just disappointed, because the author stopped her Zelda fics partway through the sequel. (Even more disappointing is that before she made that decision, she posted her version of Veran and Onox, who would have been the villains in another sequel, and now it looks like we won't get them. :( )
Reply
And that, Suethors, is shitty writing ( ... )
Reply
I'd also like to add that being unable to feel things is a real disease. gehayi commented on beautifully here, and I highly recommend reading it. For those who don't or can't though, the upshot is that being unable to feel things in reality causes a ton of health-related issues. You don't know if you've sliced your finger open with a knife, or if you're cutting off the circulation in your leg the way you're sitting, or if your skin is being burnt. And because you can't feel it, you don't know those things are happening, so you don't see medical treatment. You constantly need to check yourself over. In the typical Mary Sue fashion though, Patch isn't given any of those drawbacks. That he can't feel if he needs to go to the bathroom or not? Never brought up. That he could be shanked and not notice that he's bleeding to death? Apparently can't happen, seeing as he doesn't have a human body. Fitzpatrick had a fine set-up for a genuine reason for Patch to hate having no sense of feeling, and it's almost completely ignored.Now I can't stop ( ... )
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