This comment might clarify things a little. I am certainly not determined I have the final word about Christianity. The beliefs I listed about are just my personal opinion, and normally I'm happy to have them co-exist. If there were a shorter way to say, more accurately than "conservative Christianity," perhaps I should've said "Christianity that will not accept that my own beliefs may have merit."
Note that while I disagree with many tenets of Buddhism, I'm not questioning whether I can live alongside Buddhists. :) My problem is exclusively with philosophies -- and people -- who can allow no room for uncertainty, because if they oppose me, I really have no option but to convert or attack. As far as I'm concerned, that's an issue with Christianity, not with me. Anyone who takes, for example, a discomfort with my relationship with Postrodent as a personal qualm and not a matter of objective belief is fine with me.
I can't hate Christianity. because I know too many Christians I respect.
What I want is for it to NOT inform the discourse on every. single. damn. political. issue. in. this. country.
I loathe that I'm trapped in this mindset where every time I'm trying to argue any point of political importance, I can't get through to my opponents without conceding the ground of debate to "I know you think the Bible is more important than anything, but look at the Bible -this- way ..."
I have better things to do than let that book eat up my precious mindspace. I resent that I can't be an effective social commentator without it.
Just to clarify, please note that I never said I "hate Christianity" and I'd appreciate it if people would be very, very careful not to accidentally imply such. I have enough of a schattenganger following me as it is. :)
I do agree with everything you said, though. That's my only serious grievance with Christianity -- its absolutism, and the resulting sense that Christianity must somehow "win" on a large scale, even if it means taking religion into areas of public discourse where it doesn't belong. I still welcome people's right to matters of their own belief and conscience -- in their own lives. But it feels like I've met one too many Christians who act as if their absolute faith somehow permits them to take their beliefs as a given, and I will not accept that anymore.
I'll gladly tolerate people who have faith in Christ but accept that I don't. They don't even have to acknowledge that they might be wrong -- they just have to acknowledge that from my perspective they might be wrong. They're welcome to believe that I'm Just Wrong
( ... )
> Just to clarify, please note that I never said I "hate Christianity"
My bad. I'm usually pretty good about parsing you for meaning, but this time I read a little too much between the lines. (And there was a lot of hate-Christian vibe from *cough* a few of your commenters. :P Which is unavoidable, unfortunately, in a counterculture where the mainstream religion has scarred so many.)
> I think people who believe in the divinity of Christ are factually incorrect. But I don't believe this with the certainty I'm complaining about in certain Christians.
While this is true (hell, you think I'm incorrect too, but we've had some awesome discussions about magic and draconity! ]B=8)), I think the important distinction is: You don't care about it nearly so much
( ... )
Or more succinctly, I'll tolerate Christianity to whatever extent it will tolerate me. I do not consider publicly asserting that my "lifestyle" is a net social ill created by mental illness to be "tolerance." Any Christian whose beliefs move them not to tolerate my homosexuality will get no tolerance back from me. Tragically, Christianity leaves very little room for such tolerance. Therefore, any progress I make to advance my beliefs will probably have to be done at Christianity's expense. This is not regrettable.
I try to avoid all the controversial reply-fishing that happens around and about if I can...
...but to me, it boils down to this. I find it hard to believe the notion that our belief system was carved in stone (somewhat literally) thousands of years ago and people basically claim that it has not changed since then. Like the Constitution, original intent and all.
Times change. The most recent major religion afaik is Islam (~600 AD). We've seen, time and again, what happens when we don't adapt belief systems to changing conditions. We're still seeing it now.
I believe your argument is with the culture that has become associated with Christianity, and not the faith itself. The emphasis placed on the immorality of homosexuality is not based on biblical teachings, nor the central dogma of mainstream churches. I don't feel the Christianity is actually much of authority currently in our culture, rather conservative elements use the poor religion in order to fulfill their wholly secular political agenda
( ... )
Already gotcha covered. :) I realized much the same thing when I got up this morning and took it on the chin, perhaps rightfully, for sounding just as arrogant as the particular Christians I was slamming.
I was raised Dutch Reformed Christian. I stopped going to church (ironically) shortly after Confirmation, became an agnostic, then an atheist, and finally a hardcore Yakian Discordian.
My parents still go to church. I hear my Mom's church is pretty tolerant, and she invites me now and then, but I politely decline. (My reasons for not going to church anymore actually have little to do with the church's stance on homosexuality.)
My grandmother never went to church. I asked her why once. Her philosophy was that you don't need to go to church to be a good person. I like that.
I'm curious. What's a "Yakian Discordian"? I know a little bit about Discordianism, but attempts at Googling for Yakian Discordianism (or even just "Yakian") don't get me much, so I'm curious (Or is it simply a personal sub-division?)
It's a personal sub-division. Where Discordians ostensibly believe god is a crazy woman, Yakian Discordians ostensibly believe god is a crazy yak. Or something.
Comments 45
Reply
Note that while I disagree with many tenets of Buddhism, I'm not questioning whether I can live alongside Buddhists. :) My problem is exclusively with philosophies -- and people -- who can allow no room for uncertainty, because if they oppose me, I really have no option but to convert or attack. As far as I'm concerned, that's an issue with Christianity, not with me. Anyone who takes, for example, a discomfort with my relationship with Postrodent as a personal qualm and not a matter of objective belief is fine with me.
Reply
What I want is for it to NOT inform the discourse on every. single. damn. political. issue. in. this. country.
I loathe that I'm trapped in this mindset where every time I'm trying to argue any point of political importance, I can't get through to my opponents without conceding the ground of debate to "I know you think the Bible is more important than anything, but look at the Bible -this- way ..."
I have better things to do than let that book eat up my precious mindspace. I resent that I can't be an effective social commentator without it.
Reply
I do agree with everything you said, though. That's my only serious grievance with Christianity -- its absolutism, and the resulting sense that Christianity must somehow "win" on a large scale, even if it means taking religion into areas of public discourse where it doesn't belong. I still welcome people's right to matters of their own belief and conscience -- in their own lives. But it feels like I've met one too many Christians who act as if their absolute faith somehow permits them to take their beliefs as a given, and I will not accept that anymore.
I'll gladly tolerate people who have faith in Christ but accept that I don't. They don't even have to acknowledge that they might be wrong -- they just have to acknowledge that from my perspective they might be wrong. They're welcome to believe that I'm Just Wrong ( ... )
Reply
My bad. I'm usually pretty good about parsing you for meaning, but this time I read a little too much between the lines. (And there was a lot of hate-Christian vibe from *cough* a few of your commenters. :P Which is unavoidable, unfortunately, in a counterculture where the mainstream religion has scarred so many.)
> I think people who believe in the divinity of Christ are factually incorrect. But I don't believe this with the certainty I'm complaining about in certain Christians.
While this is true (hell, you think I'm incorrect too, but we've had some awesome discussions about magic and draconity! ]B=8)), I think the important distinction is: You don't care about it nearly so much ( ... )
Reply
Reply
...but to me, it boils down to this. I find it hard to believe the notion that our belief system was carved in stone (somewhat literally) thousands of years ago and people basically claim that it has not changed since then. Like the Constitution, original intent and all.
Times change. The most recent major religion afaik is Islam (~600 AD). We've seen, time and again, what happens when we don't adapt belief systems to changing conditions. We're still seeing it now.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
My parents still go to church. I hear my Mom's church is pretty tolerant, and she invites me now and then, but I politely decline. (My reasons for not going to church anymore actually have little to do with the church's stance on homosexuality.)
My grandmother never went to church. I asked her why once. Her philosophy was that you don't need to go to church to be a good person. I like that.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment