Comments | wwidsith: Heffer warns that inappropriate intransitivity will not be tolerated.

wwidsith

Heffer warns that inappropriate intransitivity will not be tolerated.

Dec 02, 2008 18:54

There has been much cackling among media types about Telegraph editor Simon Heffer's email to his staff, complaining about errors in the newspaper. The Guardian, with considerable Schadenfreude, stuck the whole thing on their website, and you can read it here if you so wish.

He starts off fairly reasonably highlighting some basic spelling mistakes ( Read more... )

words, old english, language

Comments 6

hazel_shea December 3 2008, 12:29:59 UTC

That email cracks me up, thanks for making me aware of it! Some of the errors are quite unbelievable (epilepsy is a mental illness?!), but as many have said it does get slightly annoying when he lapses over into areas which are debatable. I mean, the whole Christmas lunch/dinner thing is just ridiculous, I think he got carried away there.

Also, I don't think people 'giving warning that' any more, at least I haven't seen that written in anything that's not at least 100 years old. It sounds wrong.

noramay December 3 2008, 16:43:37 UTC

Rules like this tend to defy my understanding. I do see where the technical defense for insisting on 'give warning' comes from, but the idea that it's wrong not to do so just doesn't hold water to me.

desayuno_ingles December 4 2008, 13:56:06 UTC

Seriously. Seriously! How do you do that? I'm not even joking, I can't count the number of times I've had language use questions and you actually anticipate them or the basic subject about which I am wondering!

In this case, I wanted to know the difference between and how to use transitive and intransitive verbs. When speaking Spanish, I think of "transitive" as a "moving in time" sense. I am ____ing", for example. That did not lead me exactly to INtransitive uses, which I would take to mean not moving in time, or static. Am I totally off? Or are there just several tenses in which in/transitive verbs may be used?

While you're at it, please give me a breakdown of when to use "will" and when to use "shall" and their conjugal variations.

wwidsith December 4 2008, 14:43:00 UTC

Ha, just lucky I guess! And I'm reading your mail..

Your idea about transitive verbs is not quite right. It isn't time that is being "transited" but rather the action of the verb itself.

Basically, a transitive verb is one that has a grammatical object. Eat, for example, in the sentence: I eat chocolate. Here I am the subject (I'm the one eating) and chocolate is the object of the verb (it's getting eaten).

Some transitive verbs have more than one object. Eg -- I give you some chocolate. I am still the subject, and chocolate is the direct object again (the thing being given), but this time there is also an indirect object -- you.

That's transitive verbs. Intransitive verbs don't have any objects. Think of a verb like die. You can't die someone or something. You simply die.

A lot of verbs can be transitive or intransitive. In I open the door, "open" is transitive because it has the door as a direct object; but in The flowers open in spring, "open" is intransitive ( ... )

desayuno_ingles December 4 2008, 15:05:24 UTC

Ooh, thank you! That's a good, useful explanation.

Yeah, I've actually met Ollie twice before now. First time was in London three and a half years ago and the last time was actually staying at his mom's inn in Corrego do bom Jesus, Brazil for two weeks. I'll be here for another few days.

It's been good, just expensive.

weofodthignen December 16 2008, 16:33:08 UTC

Ah, interesting .... in grammar school I was told by a friend that I was being fearfully ungrammatical not using "shall" at least for "I." It used to be that American English used "will" consistently and British, indeed, had the complicated alternation. I wasn't aware this had broken down. The reason it matters, as my friend pointed out, is that using the other one is emphatic/monitory, as in the Doxology's "Thou shalt"s. Hence in the US "shall" is only now used to mean "want __ to," predominantly "Shall we?" which is a step above "Let's" and "Shall I?" which is simply "Do you want me to." It is--or was, judging by your reply--one of fewer than half a dozen grammatical differences between the two, but the internet has caused them to converge with a rush. So that's interesting, I hadn't been aware that my usage there had been advanced, not just ignorant ( ... )