"The War On Women"

[wraithtdk]

I have been attempting to scale myself back for the past few days. Honestly, I have. I realize I'm starting to alienate the people I care about with the amount of anger and frustration I display towards things I see as stupid and unreasonable. And while I contend that the only difference between my feed and most of my friend's feeds is that the

Comments

From wikipedia

[wraithtdk]

"Planned Parenthood is the largest provider of abortions in the U.S.[5] In 2009, Planned Parenthood performed 332,278 abortions, from which it derives about $164,154,000, or 15% of its annual revenue.[84] According to PPFA's own estimates, its contraceptive services prevent approximately 612,000 unintended pregnancies and 291,000 abortions annually."

I understand that PP is not some chain of abortion clinics with convenient locations in your local mall. I know they do a lot more than that. But once again, when you believe that an unborn child is a human life, you're talking about an organization that, in your eyes, killed more than a quarter of a million people. That kind of over-shadows the rest of their services.

CRAP! SORRY LORI!

[wraithtdk]

I accidentally deleted what I responded to. I meant to just delete the notification I received about it. D'OH! Here's what @2stepz wrote

Re: From wikipedia

[ext_1117556]

Note - as that statement is worded, they are PREVENTING 291,000 abortions. How many other lives have they saved? Between the prevention of unintended or potentially lethal pregnancies, the mammograms, pap smears, other cancer screenings, and the public awareness campaigns, I would postulate that they have saved more lives than they have ended by a vast margin. If the concern is preserving the value of a life... is this REALLY an organization you want to shut down?

[ext_1117639]

You know, Matthew... I think I've realized that there may be a whole world of things you and I don't see eye-to-eye on. That said, I admire your abilities to state your views without inflammatory or degrading language; you approach debate with the same mindset I like to. Deconstruct and argue the points. I genuinely enjoy discussing these points of contention with you because you can state your views without calling me a 'faggot queer liberal'. Refreshing.

Of course, this is no different. I don't agree that women's (reproductive) rights are not under attack in the USA. The fact is pretty undeniable that there are groups out there who are actively, politically and socially, doing everything they can to remove from most women the option to safely and carefully choose how and when she brings a child into this world (note I use the world child, not fetus. That is, like you mentioned, a whole different can of worms

Oh for crying out loud. pt.1

[wraithtdk]

"Of course, this is no different. I don't agree that women's (reproductive) rights are not under attack in the USA. The fact is pretty undeniable that there are groups out there who are actively, politically and socially, doing everything they can to remove from most women the option to safely and carefully choose how and when she brings a child into this world (note I use the world child, not fetus. That is, like you mentioned, a whole different can of worms

Oh for crying out loud. pt.2

[wraithtdk]

"Whether or not this is murder is a phenomenally difficult point of contention, as it's pretty much impossible to just 'decide' when life begins. First heartbeat? Developed frontal lobes? Lungs? Zygote splitting? Who the hell knows; I don't and I won't pretend to. I don't, functionally and religiously, think it's my job to control the beliefs or actions of a woman who cannot bring a child safely into this world

Okay. Here we go. Pt. 1

[ext_1117639]

"It's not a matter of them wanting to control when a woman has a child. It's a matter of believe that once a fetus starts growing inside you, it IS a child, in which case killing said child because you don't want it is an act of barbarism equivalent to legalized infanticide."
"Let me put it this way; and be honest with me: let's say that it was revealed that planned parenthood had killed three hundred thousand newborns because their mothers didn't want them. Would the fact that they provide healthcare to women negate in your eyes? Because if you're of the belief that a fetus is on par with a newborn, that's what happened. It's got nothing to do with not wanting to provide health care."

Okay. There's a disconnect here. What you're asserting are your beliefs; you believe as the anti-abortion lobby does. I, and tens of millions of women, do not. I don't believe life starts at conception, plain and simple. Science backs neither of us up; no one has conclusively determined when a brain has the ability to feel pain or create conscious

Okay. Here we go. Pt. 2

[ext_1117639]

"First of all, this is a semantic point, but it's not murder. That's fact. Murder is the willful ILLEGAL termination of life. The misuse of that word is a pet-peve of mine. Regardless of how ethical and/or unethical a killing is, if it's legal, it's not murder."

Semantic win here. I and many have misused the term.

So, if you truly believe all of your arguments, and you believe that they’re all valid EVEN IF you believe that what is within her is, without a doubt, a human life, then why not extend abortion up to the moment the woman goes into labor?"

The rarity of this situation means that the 'why not just shoot the baby when it crowns' argument is pretty facile. Look up the CDC statistics; the vast, vast majority of abortions occur between weeks 6 and 12 of the gestational process. The fact is that, in America, only 5.5% of abortions occur during the fetal development stage of a pregnancy. Should those be legally monitored and incredibly restrictive? Hell yes! And they are! American law in virtually every state that even allowes

Okay. Here we go. Pt. 3 (TL;DR)

[ext_1117639]

TL;DR: I recognize the points you make, but I still don't think anyone has the right to remove from those women who choose this path the capability to choose that path safely and affordably. It's not up to one group to dictate to all other groups how public funds are directed; Pro-Choice people pay taxes just as do the Pro-Life people and don't have any more right to dictate how that money is spent. Fight your fight, try to convince people with well reasoned arguments, but don't drive these desperate women in alleys where butches will cause untold harm because some midwestern soccer mom didn't like the idea of a Californian teen getting an abortion 'on her dime'.

Re: Okay. Here we go. Pt. 3 (TL;DR)

[wraithtdk]

>Okay. There's a disconnect here. What you're asserting are your beliefs; you believe as the anti-abortion lobby does. I, and tens of millions of women, do not. I don't believe life starts at conception, plain and simple

Re: Okay. Here we go. Pt. 3 (TL;DR)

[wraithtdk]

As for the rest of your posts, I made it very clear that the issue was whether the motivation for wanting to defund planned parenthood was based on the belief that “women don’t deserve health care” or the belief that they routinely destroy what conservatives believe to be human life. The topic is NOT if the de-funding should happen, it's NOT if abortion is right or wrong, it's NOT about when life begins. It's about one thing: the REASON, the MOTIVATION behind the push to get it defunded; and the bull-shit claims that conservatives don't think women deserve health care. You are, at this point, focusing on the right or wrong of abortion and the value of planned parenthood. That is an entirely separate matter, and I made it abundantly clear that I am not interested in debating that with you.