dominance hierarchies and the nature/society balance

[witness_light]

there are so many thought-provoking situations and ideas running through my mind right now i'm not sure i could capture them all or subdue them into the semblance of sense. i'm trying to work out on my mind the duality between animal instincts and intellect, if and how to walk a line between them, and whether it is possible to break out of roles

Comments

[witness_light]

"a limited ability to reprogram ourselves" is an apt description. i'm frustrated by my current limitations though... i would like to lose control in order to have intense experiences (like letting go on the dance floor and losing myself in the music or seeing something particularly beautiful) but also refrain from emotionally destroying myself or putting a lot of strain on my social relationships because i can't get a grip on my emotions.

i'm going to write some more, i think, on appearance vs. substance... thanks for mentioning it, that got me thinking.

[witness_light]

*hugs*

i'm always here if you need to talk.

[xaoschild]

Robert Anton Wilson wrote quite bit about the 10 neural circuits of the brain and how they are imprinted. It has a great deal of bearing on instinct versus intellect, and I bet you'd really enjoy reading about it. I think the book that he deals with it most heavily in is Prometheus Rising.

[xaoschild]

Yes.

Communism, and Dominance

[gavin6942]

I don't dispute that two people together require one to be dominant and another submissive. In fact, I enjoy this. You might be upset that you're oppressed by being the submissive one, but the situation is easily fixed if you learn to accept the situation

Re: Communism, and Dominance

[witness_light]

i didn't actually intend to belittle communism, of which i don't actually know enough to make an intellectual judgment... just wanted to point out that i'm not sure people are capable of accepting it.

i have to concede the point about dom/sub relationship dynamics. just like in primates, the only trouble comes when one party begins to dispute their position... if everyone accepts their place in the hierarchy, things proceed in a relatively peaceful fashion. however, i don't think on those grounds that i should necessarily accept my continual position as submissive... there must be ways around it... or rather, i need to either reconcile myself with it or start asserting myself and therefore change the position. something to consider...

Re: Communism, and Dominance

[gavin6942]

I certainly wasn't saying that you are submissive and should accept it. Perhaps I worded that wrong. I guess I meant your position is submissive, but you feel dominant.

You'd have to switch to a submissive personality or enter a dominant relationship. See, the thing about oppression is, you can only be oppressed if you are dominant and forced into submission. If you're submissive, you can't be oppressed, because what others see as oppression is actually conducive to your well-being. (In fact, if you "un-oppressed" a submissive person, they would be in a lot worse shape because of it...)

As for communism, I can't really defend it anymore. They cancelled my membership two years ago whe nI didn't pay my $12 party dues. :)

[tspeeddemonx]

if u ask me, yes, the human being has an intellect, it is intelligent to hold thoughts of equality. but I think 586248589618407 years of evolution (okay, maybe not that long :p ) and instinct are stronger than that. that is why there can never be peace and love and equality among every people. it is against nature. the will to survive lies in the nature of every living race. that only works if u pick the strongest and let them multiply. (As a Satanist I agree on the support of the strong.) I think that humans are still animals but we dont live it. Thinking to be something better is like a slap in nature's or "gods" face. ooh, hypocrits.. heretics of life! And I also think that life is a fight, a war. You have to prove you are strong enough to survive. that's why I am always alert. that's just my way of thinking. because I was set in this world with a struggle to survive. but Id much rather tell you more about that in person. even Andy I havent told that story about me yet.

[witness_light]

i hope we'll be able to steal an afternoon at faire to sit somewhere and talk... we would have a lot of stories, i'm sure. :)

i agree that in nature, the strong will always survive and no one gives a second thought to the weak... everyone must fend for themselves, or in more complex social structures, for themselves and their families/allies. i'm not sure how i feel about that in the context of modern society though... especially in a culture where you aren't necessarily fighting to *physically* survive...

frankly, i'm small and not very strong, i wouldn't biologically have had much of a chance in nature. now "strength" seems to be measured more and more by how much money you have and how well you can maintain a social facade... is that how we're supposed to "survive"?

i guess for the poets and madmen, it's more a matter of navigating everyday life and not drowning completely in despair, but that's a struggle i'm much more willing to undertake...

[tspeeddemonx]

we will definitly have to talk more on that at faire :D at a calm place where our thoughts -and only ours- can expand, shine and interlock...