Interesting article!

[winterspel]

[Warning: Sexually explicit discussion of cultural customs in historical Japan found in the comments. Proceed at your own risk.]

Many thanks to icajoleu for forwarding this to me! :) I love that my friends keep an eye out for my crazy interests...this article is short but addresses a few different interesting ideas.

Harry Potter Loves MalfoyBy Jennifer

Comments

[catdecember]

thats such a cool article. :D

i really didn't get the whole yaoi thing before, even before JE. when i saw Moon Child i found the gackt/hyde chemistry too weird. but now, i totally get it!

[winterspel]

I'm glad you like the article. Gosh, the things that I'm learning! It's all good. :) Did you see riccichan's comment above? Very interesting info on gender in Japan.

[catdecember]

i know. the JE fandom intensified my love for japan even more.

i'll check out riccichan's comment! :D

Part 1

[winterspel]

To continue this threadI still feel a bit wobbly on some things because you're right it was a lot of information, so forgive me if I don't interpret it all correctly

Answer to 1) - 6) (Part 1)

[riccichan]

1. It is amazing and interesting how boys and youths were perceived culturally, and that there was no ban on pedophilia (because that concept didn't exist as a taboo).

Though the idea of the concept "child" as in "not yet an adult" and "has rights that need protecting" isn't so old in our western society either, I think.

2. Continuing from that last, the way that JE young boys/men are what I call idealized and even sexualized (even though I understand what you say that Japanese girls might not see it this way) makes a lot of sense when it comes out of the tradition that you describe. I get the sense that the "do" is almost sacred. People wouldn't lose that sense overnight, even if times and culture have changed and adapted to new norms.I agree with you. Maybe the difference between mastering a "dô" and mastering an art western-style also has something to do with it. In western thinking, becoming a true master of an art form means surpassing everyone else, not necessarily by skill alone, but also by finding your own, individual,

Answer 1) - 6) (Part 2)

[riccichan]

The main points of interests, if you look at yaoi like this, are then the liberation of the characters in an emotional way, meaning they can go wherever they want, they can feel whatever they want because they are not "the typical boy" as perceived by society, their love is "purer" because it holds strong against prejudice (their own and that of society); and the freedom of drawing / looking at explicit sexual scenes in which the female reader can identify with either character. I think for some girls / women, yaoi is a handy means to deal with the subject of sexuality without being directly involved, and even though the gender of the characters is male, the gender roles when it comes to sex are clearly distinguishable as male and female.

Of course, one may not forget the entertainment factor of seeing two handsome boys having a wild round without a whiny female lead to get in the way - the main reason why I read yaoi. *g* (And also the reason why lesbian porn sells so well among men, I guess.)

I think it's pretty common in

Part 2

[winterspel]

In response to this thread, this comment continues from here.

7. Re:
Back to the topic of sexualization - since it's not "real", whatever that might mean, the boys have nothing to worry about, nor does the public worry about them. Although there have been voices in the japanese entertainment industry who say that JE produces "worthless boys", meaning that they are confused as to their role in society (which might also imply confusion over their gender). They advocate a more "decent" marketing of the boys. But I don't think we'll ever see that happen, I'd predict that things will get even more sexualized in the future.Okay, this really interests me. See, it's one thing if society accepts this and that there is no reality in it for how the boys are perceived, BUT, what about the boys themselves? What must it be like for them to grow up in a mostly-male environment that cross-dresses them, has them posed together in bed and all kinds of other suggestive things - at a point in their lives which is very formative. How are they to generate

Re: Part 2

[winterspel]

so forgive me for any weirdness.

Ugh, and the typos! I didn't proofread very well...

Answer to 7) (Part 1)

[riccichan]

7. Okay, this really interests me. See, it's one thing if society accepts this and that there is no reality in it for how the boys are perceived, BUT, what about the boys themselves? What must it be like for them to grow up in a mostly-male environment that cross-dresses them, has them posed together in bed and all kinds of other suggestive things - at a point in their lives which is very formative. How are they to generate a healthy self-identity?

Well, the part of their lives we get to see is mostly-male. But behind the scenes? They are surrounded by women - the staff of the magazines (in one episode of Kanjani8's weekly TV show "Honjani!", they have to impress the editors of Duet, Myojo etc. who are all women), their own staff, make-up artists, stylists, the people in charge of refreshments, costumes... plus the people they work with, or the rare Hello!Project / JE collaborations. The cross-dressing is also not viewed as radical, in the land which created the word "cosplay".

See, I think that it must be hard enough to cope with

Answer to 7) (Part 2)

[riccichan]

I also do think that there is quite a lot of touching going on behind the scenes. It's not uncommon for boys in puberty to experiment, even without questioning their own sexuality. I have heard stories from a friend whose japanese male friend went to a border school for boys - the things that were going on there, I couldn't believe it. So much for the conservative japanese...

I wonder how it is for the boys who really are homosexual, or bisexual (I can't help the feeling that Takki belongs to the latter category). It must be heaven and hell at the same time.

I can't help feeling a bit like JE prostitutes (at least with the groups that I'm seeing now) these boys. I know that sounds harsh, and yet, I am still a fan.

I'm with you on this. It's like prostitution, what with the fixed salary they get from Johnny-the-pimp, the semi-nude photo shoots, the "two hours of a sleep a night are enough" attitude. I shy away from thinking too much about it, to be honest.

I have to trust that their homes and families provide enough of a grounding