Wow, another of my LJ friends is rewatching Buffy and posted nearly the exact same Buffy/Spike rant.
I totally see it the opposite way. I mean, yeah, Spike used Buffy but...shit, she was just as bad if not worse to him. She was cruel to him, she told him he was worthless, she told him no time and time again when she really meant yes...half the appeal of the ship to me (and yes, I ship it) is that they were both so broken there was no way for them to be healthy.
I could type more but I'm sleepy and I know it's all a POV/opinion thing anyway. But I DO wholeheartedly agree with you re: the trio of nerds. Fucking messed up people, especially Warren. NOT cool supervillians.
I think the not watching and distance gives me peace of mind, then I forget and rewatch the entire thing and all the venom comes back up again. Le sigh.
I totally agree that Buffy used him and was horrible, but I still believe that Spike was the instigator of most things horrid in that relationship. In no way was Buffy worse to him.
From my perspective, all the times Buffy said 'no' and tried to break it off with him, she really did mean it for the most part, but he didn't listen and kept pushing and pushing and pushing until she had no strength to fight him off any longer. To me that plays into a whole lot of consent issues.
Whichever way you see it, it does not excuse Spike's actions in "Seeing Red" or the retcon that he intentionally went to get his soul back as she deserved, and not the episodes of "bitch will get what's coming to her" harmful intention he started with.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I'm rewatching Buffy, too. I'm actually catching it in reruns on Logo, and I picked it up in the middle of Season 5.
By Season 7 (which, you know, isn't good anyway) Spike was a black hole of suck in every scene he was in. I wanted him to die and get off my show so hard.
I think the Spike/Buffy relationship as it stands might have been more palatable if they had once, just once, acknowledged how disturbing and destructive it really was, instead of continuing to insist over and over that it was 'twu wuv'.
Wait, what?
That just boggles me because I honestly thought that was kinda the point: that who and where these people were--and what they'd gone through--in their lives lead them to this point...in all it's f*cked up deliciously hot fight!sex glory.
Good lord, I mean--I LIKED Spuffy (I can't do broody like Angel, it's why I can't stand Stefan). But I don't have access to the DVD commentaries and never read much on fandom at the time so I had NO IDEA this was supposed to be "twu wuv."
Egads. That's disturbing.
Whatevs.
(It's kinda why I've been editing my Rayne-fic--taking out that completely unrealistic expectation of HEA and playing up the "they're good for each other in THIS instance because" angles...which usually have to do with their particularly spectacular capability for violence.)
I think the overall general storyline was supposed to be that it was an unhealthy relationship, the sort you fall into as a young person unsure and confused and lost and depressed and what not
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I totally see it the opposite way. I mean, yeah, Spike used Buffy but...shit, she was just as bad if not worse to him. She was cruel to him, she told him he was worthless, she told him no time and time again when she really meant yes...half the appeal of the ship to me (and yes, I ship it) is that they were both so broken there was no way for them to be healthy.
I could type more but I'm sleepy and I know it's all a POV/opinion thing anyway. But I DO wholeheartedly agree with you re: the trio of nerds. Fucking messed up people, especially Warren. NOT cool supervillians.
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I totally agree that Buffy used him and was horrible, but I still believe that Spike was the instigator of most things horrid in that relationship. In no way was Buffy worse to him.
From my perspective, all the times Buffy said 'no' and tried to break it off with him, she really did mean it for the most part, but he didn't listen and kept pushing and pushing and pushing until she had no strength to fight him off any longer. To me that plays into a whole lot of consent issues.
Whichever way you see it, it does not excuse Spike's actions in "Seeing Red" or the retcon that he intentionally went to get his soul back as she deserved, and not the episodes of "bitch will get what's coming to her" harmful intention he started with.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
The trio gives me the creeps.
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By Season 7 (which, you know, isn't good anyway) Spike was a black hole of suck in every scene he was in. I wanted him to die and get off my show so hard.
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Wait, what?
That just boggles me because I honestly thought that was kinda the point: that who and where these people were--and what they'd gone through--in their lives lead them to this point...in all it's f*cked up deliciously hot fight!sex glory.
Good lord, I mean--I LIKED Spuffy (I can't do broody like Angel, it's why I can't stand Stefan). But I don't have access to the DVD commentaries and never read much on fandom at the time so I had NO IDEA this was supposed to be "twu wuv."
Egads. That's disturbing.
Whatevs.
(It's kinda why I've been editing my Rayne-fic--taking out that completely unrealistic expectation of HEA and playing up the "they're good for each other in THIS instance because" angles...which usually have to do with their particularly spectacular capability for violence.)
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