L'esprit de escalier, Part 1

[vinnie_tesla]

Last week, a co-worker popped into the room where a bunch of us were gathered. "You know what I've noticed?" she announced to the group. "The kind of people who go to nudist colonies or swinger's parties are never actually attractive people." Having fired off her bon mot, she ran off on another errand

Comments

[cicatricex2]

man i agree with you on the thought that sex is supposed to be for the sexy.

[cicatricex2]

(that's totally the "appropriate" view pushed by movies and other media)

[vinnie_tesla]

I will admit, though: when I was writing this, I went around to a bunch of my more pop-culture saturated friends and said, "Give me some examples of how non-pretty people having libidos is portrayed as funny or creepy in mass media."

And they all said, "I can't really think of any specific ones, but you're totally right."

I don't know precisely what to make of this, but it was an interesting pattern.

[sparkymonster]

ON the show "Criminal Minds" there was a two part episode which revolved around the fat computer geek girl. A cute guy was interested in her, and it was a plot point that her work buddy assumed there must be something wrong iwth hot guy for going after fat geek girl. Later on Nicholas Brendon's geek character falls for her l33t computer skills which is awesome. But it still stands.

"Shallow Hal"

"Norbit"

Um. Most examples of fat people on TV. It's also a running gag in sort of adolescent road trip movies. Fat chicks who lust after people are grotesque and/or delusional.

[vinnie_tesla]

It's not even that anyone is trying to impose standards is the funny thing. A prettiness arms race may well be inherent to commercial mass media. Of course if you're an advertiser you want the models associated with your products to more perfectly fit the current beauty standards than the competition's do. And, as you say, digital manipulation means that now it's not even that most people don't look that way, but that even the models don't.

[gary_jordan]

I was about to post a comment about your coworker confusing "commercial sexuality" with mundane sexuality...

Instead, I want to know how she made this judgement. Had she just returned from a weekend at a nudist resort? Had she just participated in a swingers party? What was the basis of her opinion?

And, where on the scale of "commercial appeal" does your coworker fall? Was her statement one of offended shock, that lesser mortals might enjoy life, or gleeful surprise that she, too, might be able to participate?

[vinnie_tesla]

In reverse order:

* Her expression was faintly sour; her demeanor disapproving.

* Her own appeal is substantial--she's a very pretty little slip of a thing.

* I suspect that some customers mentioned that they were just back from a nudist resort, or something of that sort.

[doomtart]

For unsexy people--fat people, old people, funny-looking people, disabled people--to even feel sexual desire is inappropriate, perverse, disgusting. For them to engage in sexual display is offensive.* For them to have sex...well, there oughta be a law.I (we) have been getting this attitude in spades since I hit my mid-40's (my husband is in his 50's). While waiting in a coffee shop my husband, who was standing behind me, put his arms around me and kissed the top of my head, a young couple nearby proclaimed that we were disgusting and too old to act like that. Even amongst friends who are in the same general age group we are viewed as an anomaly as we are still quite affectionate and still have (frequent) sex; there is a general 'you should be beyond all that by now' attitude

[vinnie_tesla]

In a coffeeshop, your husband kissed the top of your head, and someone came over and scolded you?? I would be speechless with indignation at that arrogance. Then I would come home and do really pissy postings on my journal. Rinse, repeat.

Your point about age and kink is very true, and part of the same pattern. Pictures of unpretty people having sex (especially kinky sex) are often responded to with comments like "that's just wrong!" I feel like there's even a competitive element--like people vie to be the most disgusted. I suppose repudiating the ugly people is supposed to sort of magically increas your own prettiness. Or something.

We have a winner (not spam, I promise :)

[anonymous]

While I can actually relate to your entire post, this line really jumped out at me: " Sexual nonconformists who devote time and energy to explaining why other sexual nonconformists are grody look basically fratricidal to me

Re: We have a winner (not spam, I promise :)

[vinnie_tesla]

• I fear that your-kink-is-not-okay-ism will always be with us. It's a weed that grows in the neglected corners of our minds, and has to be painstakingly dug out. Certainly, I'm constantly finding little stands of it flourishing in myself. If only someone would invent a spray...

• It's a funny phenomenon where someone would break off a chat with you 'cause of your description of your weight. It gets even funnier when you factor in how bad most folks actually are at gauging weight.*

• You are very much encouraged to link your site here. ASSTR is awesome in many ways, but I'd love to see more crosstalk coming out of that group of writers.

* See this thread for various people getting all huffy that showing happy clothed fat girls is "misleading"