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[sugarblue_sunny]

Because I'm interested in the debate on this subject, I have a question for you:

If [and only if!] you are okay with borrowing items made of animal products [such as purses/clothes/shoes] or purchasing such items secondhand [such as from a thrift store or a previous owner], what would your stance be on renting these products [such as leather purses

Comments

[matt_nothing]

The secondhand animal product issue has been debated to death on here. I'll go ahead and tag this post so you can refer back to all the previous posts.

[sugarblue_sunny]

Thanks for the tag. I'm not interested in debating secondhand stuff, just using that as a requirement so the debate doesn't become "anything with animal products under any circumstances ever is evil" because as valid as that point is, it's not everyone's viewpoint.

[matt_nothing]

I think a lot of the opinions will apply to rentals/borrowing too.

Personally, my opinions are:

borrowing animal remains: exploitation, promotion as "fashionable" of said animal product. you're wearing it out, which will cause new to be bought sooner.

renting animal remains: same as above, but this time you're actually paying for the exploitation and killing.

[sugarblue_sunny]

I definitely agree, that's a really good point, and very well put!

[rebirthoxide]

How is it a debate if you only want one sided opinions?

[sugarblue_sunny]

Just because I want to narrow down responses doesn't mean the opinions will be one-sided by any means. Some people who feel that way about secondhand stuff will not feel the same way about this, etc. But it's almost an absolute guarantee that people who are against animal products in any circumstances, even secondhand/used/etc. will be against it in this condition, which is what would make it more one-sided.

[rebirthoxide]

I would have to say that a very marginal amount of people who are ok with buying/borrowing secondhand corpses are going to "debate" the idea of renting them. It would be splitting hairs to justify the former and not the latter. I must admint, though, seeing a room full of fashionistas trying to justify one but not the other would be pretty funny.

By removing a cross section of opinion, you're turning a debate into a meeting of like-minded folks. By drawing together people who agree on the subject, I seem to catch a slight whiff of "condoning". It's cool if you think it's ok, and I don't blame you for wanting to find people who agree with you, but traffic shaping (in the poorly veiled guise of making your "debate" seem more "accurate") in this community goes over like a turd in a punchbowl.

[friend_of_tofu]

It would be splitting hairs to justify the former and not the latter.

I hope I've set out some reasons why I don't consider this to be the case; it's very much about circumstances.

[friend_of_tofu]

Renting differs form a lot of secondhand purchases, because their previous owner didn't purposely buy them to make a profit, whereas renting is precisely about that. I am OK with getting something from a charity shop or car boot sale or someone selling their old clothes through a selling community, because it isn't putting money back into the killing in and of itself, and it prevents waste (which I really hate).

But renting requires a surplus; it therefore requires that things are produced for the rental market, thus increasing the production of animal-unfriendly items. Also, whereas someone might own 3 pairs of shoes, if renting made it affordable to wear 25 different pairs, they are arguably increasing their total consumption of those products as well, which is not in my ideal scenario by any means.

[sugarblue_sunny]

That's a brilliant way to put it, thank you for contributing!

[friend_of_tofu]

Any time :-)

[rebirthoxide]

Good point.

A quick question:

What could be considered a secondhand purchase? A few of the recycled clothing shops in my area are in no way "thrift" stores insofar that the secondhand products they sell are expensive designer brands. I'll often see a piece of clothing there that appears brand new, sometimes with a tag. Also, these products (shoes, purses mainly) seem to make their way back into the store in the same condition as they left...although stock is not being purchased in the traditional sense of the word, is the continual profit being made off of one pair of fancy leather boots an incentive to continue animal product consumption overall? Does buying turn into renting if you sell it back to the secondhand store?

[friend_of_tofu]

On a practical point, most people can't tell leather from non-leather shoes. I definitely do not feel comfortable promoting leather as a fashion fabric. I would not wear a leather trench coat (even though I do love the style).

[wefoughtharder]

would you rent a bag made out of skin of a Holocaust victim?

yeah, its pretty sick, and disrespectful, and twisted and gory and nasty and not okay. ever.