M. Vipsanius Agrippa -- comments on Rome

[vaznetti]

One thing I do like in this season's Rome is the way they're forming Agrippa's politics -- it's a nice use of the tradition found i.e. in Cassius Dio, where there's a set piece debate between Agrippa and Maecenas, with Maecenas advocating monarchy and Agrippa a return to a more Republican government.

Comments

[selenak]

Agrippa is an easy figure to idealize, true, because despite his loyal service to Augustus, he's not perceived as being tainted with the darker side of the later's regime. His marriages post-Atticus' daughter would indicate he wanted the top job, though - I mean, going from Marcella to Julia, i.e. Augustus' niece to Augustus' daughter, doesn't speak of lack of personal ambition.

Assuming Agrippa had survived Augustus instead of the other way around: would this have been before or after Augustus adopted Gaius and Lucius, and how would this have affected the way Agrippa would have shaped the Principate?

[vaznetti]

If you imagine a situation where Augustus died when G. and L. were still boys, Agrippa would have had to take over, wouldn't he? The interesting thing would have been how their inheritance would have been expressed, I think. Would Agrippa have represented himself as a caretaker for Augustus' divine bloodline? I'm not sure, because as you say, Agrippa was hardly lacking in personal ambition or in talent; he might have encouraged a view of the Principate as the rule of the "best man," instead, as a way to bolster his own position. Although what the long-term potential of that would have been, I'm not sure.

The problem, I think, is that it's easy to wander into pure fantasy here, because so much depends on chance -- if Agrippa had survived his sons, if Gaius or Lucius had lived to old age... And then, Agrippa's relations withthe Senate were, frankly, not likely to be that much better than Tiberius', so he might have run into the same kind of trouble.

[tiferet]

I won't know what to think if they don't go with Antony/Octavia; it will make a whole lot of things that actually happened make not much sense.

[vaznetti]

Well, you may have noticed that their grasp of history is not as strong as it might be. Which, fair enough -- they're making a drama, after all.

[iseult_variante]

I am enjoying both Agrippa and Maecenas, for completely different reasons - as you say, they seem to be setting up for Agrippa as the "good guy", while Maecenas has the potential to be a dangerous little weasel. It is interesting to read your speculation about the different kind of Principate, historically.

There are so few episodes left, that I am very curious how they'll manage to do Antony/whoever and Antony/Cleo. The idea that they're conflating Octavia with Julia seems like a plausible one, too. And I just can't see how Atia would take Antony/Octavia. Well, I mean, I can see how she'd handle it: very, very badly. Which, hey, might also be fun!