I think you know where I stand on her message. I think it's naive to think we can reason with people who would send their children out to die in an effort to kill Americans and Israelis. We need to wake up in this country and be honest with ourselves. As much as we would like to think Muslims can be reasoned with and "moderate" Muslims will prevail. There is just no evidence this is going to happen. I just wonder how many 9/11's it will take for us to realize this is a religious war and not a conventional war.
As far as i can tell it appears to be identical. Several sites cite the above reference for the "excerpts". I realize this still doesn't prove that they are exactly what she said in her speech that day, but it appears to be at least a somewhat credible source.
Yeah, I saw that page, too. I wanted to find a page that is directly associated with her, but the only link she provided to the speech she gave at the Summit was broken. I am going to assume it's true because she speaks about this subject a great deal, and it seems that the events she mentioned correspond with details in her biography and Wikipedia (which I know is not the greatest source, either), so I'm going to assume that it's true... and anyway, it was the message behind the essay/speech that I was interested in moreso than the author. I just didn't want to link the wrong author to the work, you know?
Yeah, that makes sense. It was just something i found that i thought might be of interest to you. ;-)
Anyway... that's all i wanted to point out. I think there is probably at least *some* accuracy in this work... but as others have pointed out here it is also a speech that relies heavily upon her own experience and sometimes that's not the most reliable source. I'm not saying it's not true... and that i don't have similar feelings about the muslim religion (especially the practice of jihad), but i do think there are other perspectives to be considered.
If that's her experience, that's her experience. She is speaking from an experience of having all of her friends die at young ages because an Islamic Extremist killed them. I think if someone had all their friends die because someone killed them for not being the other person's religion, that it is understandible that they would build up a hatred for those people
( ... )
I wonder if she really cares to make the distinction between Muslims and Muslim radicals. I think it's terrible that this religion has been tainted due to the widespread violence committed by people who practice it. But if those Muslims truly followed their own teachings, they would NOT be committing these acts. What they are doing is just making their brothers and sisters of Islam into victims of hate crimes and ill will by tainting their religion. It's the same as Christians who spread hatred or prejudice against others. These people are doing terrible things while hiding behind their holy books
( ... )
That's one thing I wonder about. Does she care to make a distinction between the Islamic Extremists and the Moderates? Of course, maybe she sees the Moderates as useless because they don't speak out forcefully against the extremists. Of course, maybe the Moderates are intimidated by the extremists
( ... )
I think it's very difficult for non-Arab speakers to know what the Qur'an really says. It is not allowed to be changed at all; in 1400 years, the Qur'an has never been altered. That includes translations. This was a really smart idea, because we all know what happened with the Bible. One version can be drastically different from another, thanks to translation after translation
( ... )
Sigh. I'm in a happy place right now, so I'm not going to get into this right this second. I will try to come back if I get a min this week.
My short answer? Anytime you use the words "always" or "never" you are most likely wrong. That is her experience and I can't fault her for speaking to it. But I simply can't believe that there is no good in an entire religion. Genocide for genocide does solve the problem of overpopulation quite nicely though.
Personal Experiencesmrs_dragonMay 29 2008, 12:56:09 UTC
I don't want to cloud your happy space, but here's the problem. Look at all the propaganda that is out there now, trying to say that 9/11 wasn't Muslim extremists (or al Qaeda) - that it was our own government, or some other bs. This woman is saying - LOOK - this is MY OWN EXPERIENCE - and this is what I learned from it. We have so many (American) people in our time who are willing to condemn our own government, and yet preach tolerance of others with hateful agendas - how exactly is that going to work out for us in the end
( ... )
Re: Personal Experiencesmrs_dragonMay 30 2008, 00:09:48 UTC
I do prefer if people who decide to rain in my happy space do so with a face, or at least a name...
We have so many (American) people in our time who are willing to condemn our own government, and yet preach tolerance of others with hateful agendas
1. Those are not necessarily the self-same people. 2. I think that, in part, my government's behavior had brought forth, amplified, and encouraged those hateful agendas. So yes, change needs to start at home and I will criticize those here.
But is it true of most? Perhaps.
And how do you know if it is true of most? Our news doesn't give us the truth. Our government doesn't give us the truth. I'm sure as heck not going to go over there and look for myself. I refuse to believe that the majority of Muslims are hateful because I do not think the majority of humans are hateful. Angry? Misunderstood? Out for revenge? Quite possibly. But "evil"? No thanks.
I don't see that in the middle eastern mindset - I see "Infidel" and "jihad" and that if we don't believe the way they do, they will do
( ... )
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As far as i can tell it appears to be identical. Several sites cite the above reference for the "excerpts". I realize this still doesn't prove that they are exactly what she said in her speech that day, but it appears to be at least a somewhat credible source.
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Yeah, I saw that page, too. I wanted to find a page that is directly associated with her, but the only link she provided to the speech she gave at the Summit was broken. I am going to assume it's true because she speaks about this subject a great deal, and it seems that the events she mentioned correspond with details in her biography and Wikipedia (which I know is not the greatest source, either), so I'm going to assume that it's true... and anyway, it was the message behind the essay/speech that I was interested in moreso than the author. I just didn't want to link the wrong author to the work, you know?
Reply
Anyway... that's all i wanted to point out. I think there is probably at least *some* accuracy in this work... but as others have pointed out here it is also a speech that relies heavily upon her own experience and sometimes that's not the most reliable source. I'm not saying it's not true... and that i don't have similar feelings about the muslim religion (especially the practice of jihad), but i do think there are other perspectives to be considered.
♥
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My short answer? Anytime you use the words "always" or "never" you are most likely wrong. That is her experience and I can't fault her for speaking to it. But I simply can't believe that there is no good in an entire religion. Genocide for genocide does solve the problem of overpopulation quite nicely though.
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We have so many (American) people in our time who are willing to condemn our own government, and yet preach tolerance of others with hateful agendas
1. Those are not necessarily the self-same people.
2. I think that, in part, my government's behavior had brought forth, amplified, and encouraged those hateful agendas. So yes, change needs to start at home and I will criticize those here.
But is it true of most? Perhaps.
And how do you know if it is true of most? Our news doesn't give us the truth. Our government doesn't give us the truth. I'm sure as heck not going to go over there and look for myself. I refuse to believe that the majority of Muslims are hateful because I do not think the majority of humans are hateful. Angry? Misunderstood? Out for revenge? Quite possibly. But "evil"? No thanks.
I don't see that in the middle eastern mindset - I see "Infidel" and "jihad" and that if we don't believe the way they do, they will do ( ... )
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