Faith, facts and Father Christmas

[uppityliberal]

Reading this sad and scary story about "facilitated" communication got me to thinking about how easily people can dupe themselves into believing something for which facts are simply not in evidence

Comments

[rhonan]

Well, don't be too disappointed about the not seeing loved ones part, you might win the death lottery. Some people have very vivid, positive "after-life" hallucinations as they die, you might just get to 'see' them after all.

On the other hand, I can totally get why you wind atheists and agnostics who are also UU clergy. I can easily see how some people can over-look the lack of $diety, and still see a value in the community building value of religious ritual.

For full disclosure, I am a jihadi in the Unitarian Jihad, and I'm ordained Discordian Clergy.

[uppityliberal]

Every Unitarian I've ever met has been seriously awesome. It's just... "It's all good. Hey, let's sing for a while and then go have some coffee cake in the basement!" Maybe ever so slightly crunchy for my tastes in some incarnations, but as religions go, it's probably the only one I'd ever seriously consider, if I had the need for that kind of experience again (and wasn't getting it from the other community groups/projects I do.)

[anivair]

Unitarians have the right of it. there's more to life than they can see, but they don't make judgment calls about what it is. They accept all ideas and use what they can use and discard what they can't. My grove does a LOT of work with local unitarian churches and they are really excellent people. A fine example of how religion can make you a better person without making you crazy or judgmental.

[fey_cooks]

Not physically possible - and not yet physically provable are not the same thing.

[uppityliberal]

Um, no. But thanks for playing.

Science has already figured that stuff out. You are entitled to your own opinion of the facts, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

Religious experiences, for instance, are a trick of the brain. Same place hallucinations happen when someone's tripping. To the people that experience those things, sure, they're real. But that doesn't mean they're objectively real, because we have an objective explanation for those experiences.

If you want to get all existential and say that everything we observe is just some amoeba's wet dream or something, fair enough, but beyond that? Empiricism rules. Science is the foot that kicks magic square in the nuts (h/t Scott Kurtz)

[fey_cooks]

Science may have come up with some theories as to how some things take place within the mind.
However, given science's history of saying "oops - boy were we wrong" and their won self admitted lack of knowledge and limited understanding of how the mind really works I wouldn't bet the entire bank on their accuracy at this juncture (in other words, while I think they're probably on the right track - I'm not going to accept that as "gospel" anymore then I would the doctrine of any religion

[textualdeviance]

Oh, where to start

[idyllictorture]

I'm with you. Agnostic for the most part. I can see some value in religion, for the reasons you stated. Also, in situations with drug addicts for example. If Jesus keeps them from reaching for a crackpipe, then so be it, I'll be pro-religion.

Sometimes I'll have lapses when I'm desperate. I'll pray, but I find that just makes things worse. I just become overwrought rather than pro-active.

It's funny that you brought this up. I just rented "Religulous" last week.

[the_gabih]

I can relate on the childhood truths- the other kids at school never used to believe me when I told them the tests we did at the end of primary school wouldn't mean anything to them, or that they were effectively calling each other penis, vagina and excrement.

Also, word on the religious extremism. I'd consider myself a moderate-to-liberal Christian, and never am I more horrified than when I see others of my faith who believe that the whole world should be forced into thinking and acting the same way they do.

[hyrkanian]

Interesting you should mention "outing" Santa to other kids in the post, as my father-in-law (who grew up in a very conservative Christian sect but left it as a young adult) says that religion is Santa Claus for grownups.