I would argue the first two Golden Sun games are, in fact, terrible. Yeah there's a "get to the lighthouses" goal hanging over your head the whole time, but the games are artificially padded out by forcing you into sidequests that, logically, you should not be stopping for because they're completely unrelated to the main quest and serve only to be roadblocks.
It's particularly bad in TLA where Kraden is essentially dragging you everywhere because he's a fucking five-year-old distracted by the shinies. "OH MAN WEREWOLVES :D=-<" is literally the only reason you go to the goddamn werewolf village. NOBODY in either GS is focused on the quests, Babi is the worst person and they help him without even questioning it, and everyone repeats things you already know or explains the unimportant things you weren't wondering about. The game basically goes "here's your end goal WHOOPS ROADBLOCK REQUIRING HOURS OF WORK TO GET PAST FOR NO REASON, WHOOPS KRADEN WANTS YOU TO GO HALFWAY ACROSS THE WORLD AND YOU CAN'T SAY NO, WHOOPS I GUESS YOU GOT
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yeah I guess when you get down to it, the first two games really aren't that different very much at all. The biggest separation I'd say is that in the first two I didn't mind and was totally like "oh yeah sure why not" (though I haven't played TLA in maybe six years or so) and in this one I'm like "FUCK GODDAMN IT WHY DO WE CARE"
Yeah I'm playing TLA for the first time right now and...ugh. I tolerated the first Golden Sun, but TLA is about a million times worse. First off, it very rarely indicates where you're supposed to go next, and even when it does it's vague at best, so you spend the entire game in "WHERE DO I GOOOOO" mode.
Secondly, I want to shove Kraden in a lake. All the problems with the story's padding are pretty much solely on his shoulders, because he's the one going "What important world-saving quest? CAN'T YOU SEE THERE'S ~*~WEREWOLVES~*~?!" I maintain that GS1 was tolerable because Kraden wasn't present.
Pretty much; I was really not excited when he rejoins you about halfway through DD, but Camelot couldn't ~bear~ to have him gone like he should be so GUESS WHAT THE FUCKER'S AGELESS NOW! There were definite pacing problems before he came up but he certainly didn't help things in the slightest.
One thing I couldn't believe was right after the big apocalypse event, they don't tell you jack shit about where to go so I spent ages sailing all over the goddamn planet and fighting a million annoying monsters before finally finding the right place--only to find out Kraden intended us to go here the whole time, but he didn't specifically say it because "we'd get here eventually" and he "didn't want to waste time."
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WASTE TIME THEN TELL US WHERE TO GO INSTEAD OF LETTING US SAIL ALL OVER THE FUCKING WORLD YOU SENILE OLD ldkfjldskjf
lmao lmao, I'm going to have to agree that all the Golden Sun games are pretty terrible. I LOVE THEM ALL ANYWAY BECAUSE I'M CRAZY but yeah. The plots are pretty half-baked and convoluted with shittons of holes, the characters are bland at best, and the dungeons are tedious and repetitive.
and yet, for some reason, they are to this day the only turn-based RPGs I can play without wanting to scratch my eyes out. WHO KNEW?
Though, yeah, I thought "GO ON AN ADVENTURE TO FIND A FEATHER!!!" was the worst prologue to a game ever. I was like, "really, Isaac? This is really happening right now? How terrible of a father are you?"
Haha it's probably my nostalgia goggles that make me remember the previous ones fondly, really, since my TLA has been missing for years. Admittedly I've restarted the first game a lot and it always drove me insane that WE REALLY NEED A 10-MINUTE CUTSCENE ON REPAIRING THIS ROOF!!!!
Like I said, these are games that are a lot of fun when you just A-button through all the plot and enjoy the puzzles and dungeons, I think.
A prologue that serves as the main motivator for a large chunk of the game, no less, what the hell. NICE WORK ISAAC at least he looks cool with a beard?
I actually got... really emotionally invested in the plot, as I remember, and there were a lot of pointless sidequests that I got super fired up about, especially in TLA (fixing Brigg's ship, Garoh, Izumo, Lemuria, etc etc etc). I just wouldn't go as far as to call any of it well written.
The games'd be perfect for me if I didn't actually have to fight any random encounter enemies. LEVEL FOR ME, AND JUST LET ME FIGHT BOSSES, GAME. I only want your silly nonsensical plot and your plethora of log and jumping puzzles.
It's true, boy can rock a beard like nobody's business. That's what helped me forgive him for making 85% of the game totally pointless.
Yeah that's about it. Like sure there's no real reason for me to go fix this giant robot statue for this random town in the middle of nowhere, but at least I am interested by the events and having fun with it. I didn't get any of that investment here =(
Though I guess maybe he's sucked in an evil vortex hole of doom? Or something who knows. WAY TO GET DISTRACTED ON ALL THOSE POINTLESS SIDEQUESTS, KIDS
Though now that it's done I'm having a lot of fun ranting about it, sort of so-bad-its-funny once you aren't the one actually doing it anymore. I could go on about the weak plot in this sucker for ages, it's fun!
OH FUCK WHY DID WE BRING ALONG THAT DOUCHEY LITTLE FUCKER AGAIN
Now there's something I wondered myself for a long time in the game... I still don't understand why someone couldn't just knock him out or something...
Now the only reason I accepted the whole excuse plot was that I convinced myself that Isaac totally knew about the Eclipse in advance and sent them on a half-bogus quest (hey they did need that feather) to counter it. Because otherwise, that is one hell of a detour plot. Then again, I'm pretty sure those kids have been raised on Chronic Hero Syndrome.
To be honest, I think I'm less annoyed by the huge plot detour only because I'm kinda pissed they had to reach into that "darkness vs light" deal that I'm personally getting a bit annoyed at. Did we really need "Dark Psynergy"?
That's the thing, though--the Eclipse wouldn't have happened if your characters weren't there, using their neat magic powers to get to the machine. I mean, maybe Blados and Chalis would have found a way to do it, those guys seemed relatively useless aside from occasionally showing up to taunt you into a trap so obvious that even the characters knew it was a trap but they did it anyway =|a idek.
I wouldn't have minded that so much if it had been there from the start of the games. Four elements is enough, guys. This is silly.
-use FAQ/walkthrough while playing so you don't end up 20 levels above where you're supposed to be (again) because you got absolutely lost for days -treat it like Pokemon (don't do it for the plot, do it for the cute things aka Djinn... though it sounds like Pkmn wins in plot even if 10 year olds are traveling alone and going up against whole evil organizations and legendary creatures.)
Ah... It's good to hear another view on this game after all I heard was a classmate gushing over it. I know what to expect now. A feather? Really? Is it at least a phoenix feather?
It's also a good idea to use a walkthrough because some summons and Djinn are permanently missable! Hope you don't need Haures because that dude's gone forever if you don't go to a completely unrelated town and take a nap with a special leaf in your inventory.
Yeah, I decided early on to at least use the Djinn-finding walkthrough, and even doing that I missed my chance on one of the summoning tablets because LOL, LANDSLIDE NOW YOU CAN'T GO HOME.
Haha, ten-year-olds in a plot of wandering around fighting v. teens in a plot of magic hero's journey... pretty similar when you get down to it.
=p Usually I like to get opinions of any game that isn't from a series I already enjoy, but that latter bit didn't save me this time. No, a ROC feather! Not... sure why.
I still love the Golden Sun series and will definitely buy the fourth game (because you saw the ending, there's going to be a fourth game) but yeah, these are all ridiculously valid points not only on Dark Dawn but the entire series. They aren't things I necessarily agree with-I love the encyclopedia, for example-but by the time I actually got to the Stone Roc or whatever and finally remembered that I was trying to find a damn feather I had forgotten so much about the actual plot of the game and was just kind of going along with it as they threw stuff at me.
There's also a bunch of stuff that the game doesn't really tell you about even with the encyclopedia, like what the purpose of attack factor is or how you can discover rusted and worn weapons in the shallows while you're sailing, or what the shallows even are. Plus the amount of Gone Forevers doesn't really sit well with me; I bought a guide so I wouldn't miss any and I still forgot about Haures, which means I'm going to have to play through again, damn it. I also find the
( ... )
Oh yeah, that ending was neon sign of SEQUEL. I am honestly not sure if I still want to get it because damned if I don't love these puzzles. I just really couldn't follow any of the stuff they were saying, and I like to have at least a little motivation behind my heroics =\
The stuff in the shallows was something from TLA, if I remember correctly, and I think makes an okay bonus for paying attention, but I sure dunno what the attack factor is. Those Gone Forevers definitely cheesed me off a little--I missed out on Huares and Zagan.
Well, I hear Radiant Historia is coming out soon, that has potential.
My favorite part was how you have basically a five-minute window to get one Mercury Djinn in Belinsk that you probably forgot about by the time it's available (if you even went into the house to begin with) or you have to start the ENTIRE GAME over again to get it. Love it. 8D
Radiant Historia, you say? ...Oh, a grid-based battle system with time travel as a plot device and a piano-based original soundtrack. Well, I guess I know what I'm picking up next.
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It's particularly bad in TLA where Kraden is essentially dragging you everywhere because he's a fucking five-year-old distracted by the shinies. "OH MAN WEREWOLVES :D=-<" is literally the only reason you go to the goddamn werewolf village. NOBODY in either GS is focused on the quests, Babi is the worst person and they help him without even questioning it, and everyone repeats things you already know or explains the unimportant things you weren't wondering about. The game basically goes "here's your end goal WHOOPS ROADBLOCK REQUIRING HOURS OF WORK TO GET PAST FOR NO REASON, WHOOPS KRADEN WANTS YOU TO GO HALFWAY ACROSS THE WORLD AND YOU CAN'T SAY NO, WHOOPS I GUESS YOU GOT ( ... )
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Secondly, I want to shove Kraden in a lake. All the problems with the story's padding are pretty much solely on his shoulders, because he's the one going "What important world-saving quest? CAN'T YOU SEE THERE'S ~*~WEREWOLVES~*~?!" I maintain that GS1 was tolerable because Kraden wasn't present.
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One thing I couldn't believe was right after the big apocalypse event, they don't tell you jack shit about where to go so I spent ages sailing all over the goddamn planet and fighting a million annoying monsters before finally finding the right place--only to find out Kraden intended us to go here the whole time, but he didn't specifically say it because "we'd get here eventually" and he "didn't want to waste time."
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WASTE TIME THEN TELL US WHERE TO GO INSTEAD OF LETTING US SAIL ALL OVER THE FUCKING WORLD YOU SENILE OLD ldkfjldskjf
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and yet, for some reason, they are to this day the only turn-based RPGs I can play without wanting to scratch my eyes out. WHO KNEW?
Though, yeah, I thought "GO ON AN ADVENTURE TO FIND A FEATHER!!!" was the worst prologue to a game ever. I was like, "really, Isaac? This is really happening right now? How terrible of a father are you?"
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Like I said, these are games that are a lot of fun when you just A-button through all the plot and enjoy the puzzles and dungeons, I think.
A prologue that serves as the main motivator for a large chunk of the game, no less, what the hell. NICE WORK ISAAC at least he looks cool with a beard?
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The games'd be perfect for me if I didn't actually have to fight any random encounter enemies. LEVEL FOR ME, AND JUST LET ME FIGHT BOSSES, GAME. I only want your silly nonsensical plot and your plethora of log and jumping puzzles.
It's true, boy can rock a beard like nobody's business. That's what helped me forgive him for making 85% of the game totally pointless.
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Though I guess maybe he's sucked in an evil vortex hole of doom? Or something who knows. WAY TO GET DISTRACTED ON ALL THOSE POINTLESS SIDEQUESTS, KIDS
Though now that it's done I'm having a lot of fun ranting about it, sort of so-bad-its-funny once you aren't the one actually doing it anymore. I could go on about the weak plot in this sucker for ages, it's fun!
Reply
Now there's something I wondered myself for a long time in the game... I still don't understand why someone couldn't just knock him out or something...
Now the only reason I accepted the whole excuse plot was that I convinced myself that Isaac totally knew about the Eclipse in advance and sent them on a half-bogus quest (hey they did need that feather) to counter it. Because otherwise, that is one hell of a detour plot. Then again, I'm pretty sure those kids have been raised on Chronic Hero Syndrome.
To be honest, I think I'm less annoyed by the huge plot detour only because I'm kinda pissed they had to reach into that "darkness vs light" deal that I'm personally getting a bit annoyed at. Did we really need "Dark Psynergy"?
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I wouldn't have minded that so much if it had been there from the start of the games. Four elements is enough, guys. This is silly.
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-use FAQ/walkthrough while playing so you don't end up 20 levels above where you're supposed to be (again) because you got absolutely lost for days
-treat it like Pokemon (don't do it for the plot, do it for the cute things aka Djinn... though it sounds like Pkmn wins in plot even if 10 year olds are traveling alone and going up against whole evil organizations and legendary creatures.)
Ah... It's good to hear another view on this game after all I heard was a classmate gushing over it. I know what to expect now. A feather? Really? Is it at least a phoenix feather?
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Haha, ten-year-olds in a plot of wandering around fighting v. teens in a plot of magic hero's journey... pretty similar when you get down to it.
=p Usually I like to get opinions of any game that isn't from a series I already enjoy, but that latter bit didn't save me this time. No, a ROC feather! Not... sure why.
Reply
There's also a bunch of stuff that the game doesn't really tell you about even with the encyclopedia, like what the purpose of attack factor is or how you can discover rusted and worn weapons in the shallows while you're sailing, or what the shallows even are. Plus the amount of Gone Forevers doesn't really sit well with me; I bought a guide so I wouldn't miss any and I still forgot about Haures, which means I'm going to have to play through again, damn it. I also find the ( ... )
Reply
The stuff in the shallows was something from TLA, if I remember correctly, and I think makes an okay bonus for paying attention, but I sure dunno what the attack factor is. Those Gone Forevers definitely cheesed me off a little--I missed out on Huares and Zagan.
Well, I hear Radiant Historia is coming out soon, that has potential.
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Radiant Historia, you say? ...Oh, a grid-based battle system with time travel as a plot device and a piano-based original soundtrack. Well, I guess I know what I'm picking up next.
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Also I hear if you preorder it they give you the soundtrack =|b
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