Look who has a Get Out of Jail Free card

[unbridled_b]

Why is Spike considered infallible with his fans? It never really occurred to me to wonder until I started writing FtTP. In Part II of that story, he's doing all sorts of gruesome, violent, cruel things to people who (whether they were mean to his human self or not) did not deserve it. Aside from the fact that a lot of readers abandoned ship during

Comments

[darynthe]

Sigh. Yeah, I have discussed this with anti-Spike fans. They think the same you say here, except that they dont forgive a darned thing Spike has done in his past

[unbridled_b]

Well, the way I see it, it's understandable for us, as the viewers (or, in the case of fanfic, the readers) to identify and sympathize with season five Spike, and to forgive him for his past wrongs. But to expect the other characters to do the same is unrealistic. They aren't privvy to all his private little weaknesses and internal struggles the way we are. In "Crush," we saw that he was a passive observer when Drusilla killed his meal for him, and that he hesitated before he drank from it - he even looked tearful. So, we could see that Spike, intent on being a man worthy of Buffy's love, was momentarily unwilling to indulge in his baser urges. She, however, never saw this. All she saw was Spike, with a bloody mouth, standing next to his old flame. So, why should the viewer expect Buffy to regard him with anything but disgust? Yet, hundreds of viewers do expect that and they do become angry when she basically tells him to f*ck off at the end of the episode. That's what puzzles me.

[darynthe]

Yes, it is true, but take this example. It is like your child comes back home with green eye from other child striking him. You will go and complain next day and be angry and wont stop to think that maybe he did something to make it happen or did worse to the other child first. Because we have emotional attachments to those we really love and care about. We will be on their side even if it is not the fairest thing everything considered. I have to admit I am like this with Spike too. He is my favorite character of all times after Elizabeth Bennet. ;)

[debris4spike]

I too adore Spike ... well, the name gives it away!

It has been interesting for me over the last few days to read alot about Spike in this his 10th birthday. Yes I love him - jamalov29 really summed him up for me ... But I also know he was evil for 100 years! I tend to believe that a lot of the issues that Buffy had are with the Angel/Angelus argument. I suppose a lot of Spike fans are so hung up in the "He's not Angel" that we miss the evil side of him. Don't know! Just a thought as I read what you wrote - and i probably haven't explained what I am trying to say very well.

[unbridled_b]

It's the willingness to overlook his past that puzzles me, I guess. For me, the character is that much more amazing when you think about the things he's done, where's he been, and where he struggled to get in order to be worthy of Buffy.

[debris4spike]

For me, the character is that much more amazing I quite agree the growth of the character, his relationships and his outlook on humanity is incredible ... and makes another element to this person

[unbridled_b]

I quite agree the growth of the character, his relationships and his outlook on humanity is incredible ... and makes another element to this person.

It amuses me to see Joss and Marti Noxon act miffed about the way Spike took over the series. How could he not? He was a character who dragged himself up from the dregs of society, who went from being an arrogant villain to a selfless hero. His journey over the course of the series was far more profound than the other characters'. What did they expect? If they wanted him to stay in the background, they should have written him differently and hired a less talented actor. :P

[pfeifferpack]

Excellent points. Still it is interesting that Spike is not judged by vampire standards but human ones (or souled vampire ones) even before he had the soul. That chip did nothing but make it not possible for him to hunt and kill people (there were millions of ways he could have gotten around that issue had he wished so deep inside he DIDN'T wish). ITA he was far from ideal boyfriend material till Intervention proved some points. I DO think they should have noticed more about how different he was from other unsouled vampires, however. Especially Giles the researcher. Each time Spike DIDN'T do "what comes naturally" for a vampire should have indicated ,'Hey what's up with this guy?' to him. I also think they should have snapped that neither of these well matched beings had actually killed the other in all the times they had the chance. Spike's human emotions should have been recogized too (self sacrifice for the love of Dru when they had Buffy trapped thanks to her friend Ford comes to mind). The fact he had entry to her home

[unbridled_b]

I understand what you mean by the Scoobies judging him as they would a human being - but in a way, that also works in his favor. Because he was chipped and couldn't hurt anyone, they began to see him less as a demon and more as a human being, so whenever he did something to prove otherwise, they were all over him for it. However, they also didn't stake him when he did the wrong thing. Honestly, he would have had it coming to him after "Out of My Mind", and I'm just amazed that she didn't try. He also had it coming to him in "Crush". In both these situations, he hurt her and threatened to kill her; she had every right to stake him

[musicbitch]

I've noticed that, too. I found myself more on Buffy's side than Spike's in the show, at least sometimes. I didn't like him right away, it took till probably "Intervention" for me to finally realize he's not all that bad. I can understand where Buffy was coming from. Although, I think the outcome might have been different if her relationship with Angel didn't poison her mind and make her think that a soul is needed for someone to love

[darynthe]

I can understand people's reactions to Spike good or bad, but you are right that what they feel about Buffy is not understandable. I don't really see why they don't like her. She hs a right not to like someone. She was tough. But then again, that was what Spike liked about her.
Love is not something that can be forced on anyone. Not in real life, and neither in the show. Much less in the show given that she is a vampire slayer. The only thing I don't get about her is why she fell for Angel. He was boring as a rock when he was in the show.

[unbridled_b]

You're completely right. It's like so many readers are in intent on judging Buffy for her season six behavior, even if she isn't behaving that way in a fic. I think some Spuffy fans aren't Spuffy fans because they like the idea of Spike/Buffy, but because they like the idea of Spike attaining something (someone) he so desperately longs for. In those readers' minds, she should just shut up and go with it, lol.

[pfeifferpack]

I should mention that I tend to identify with Spike as opposed to lusting after him or JM. NOW....now that I care for the character I find JM/Spike atractive but before when only seeing pictures I was "meh" he's not "my type" I tend to go for the dark hair/eyes look. My caring for the character is not based on his being "good looking". Oddly I see me in Spike (Narcissim R us! LOL

[unbridled_b]

I should mention that I tend to identify with Spike as opposed to lusting after him or JM. NOW....now that I care for the character I find JM/Spike atractive but before when only seeing pictures I was "meh" he's not "my type" I tend to go for the dark hair/eyes look. My caring for the character is not based on his being "good looking". Oddly I see me in Spike (Narcissim R us! LOL)

Me too! lol. When I first saw "School Hard" (way back when it first aired) I thought Spike was wickedly cool but weird looking, too ... well ... cadaverous, lol. But the more I saw of his character, the more I began to like his character and the way he looked. By season five, I was so completely obsessed with him that the "bed hair" scenes in "Intervention" nearly gave me heart failure. But I digress ...

To me (and this is just to me and I know it...hello therapy) I see the character as a basically decent man, not too special but just an average well meaning guy (william) who had something traumatic happen, something he did not deserve(first the party

[pfeifferpack]

Yes, I do agree with you. From the standpoint of the scoobies and especially Buffy there was no reason until Intervention to cut him any real slack. I think he acknoledges that in Touched when he talks of her kindness....she WAS kind to him when it wasn't something he had earned. From the time she took him in after the chip on he was benefiting from her kind nature. We could see the changes but there was no reason for any of them to see a thing except an obsessed talker who could be terribly dangerous even with the chip.

Kathleen