What is filk: in-group and out-group defintions

[ultimatepsi]

The title of my roommate's recent post "Does this count as filk? I hope not." and one of the comments about it, have brought to my mind some very interesting questions about the definition of filk.

I think what filkers call filk and what non-filker sci-fi fans call filk are not always the same. If londo had posted his parody on a filk list, it's

Comments

[pezzonovante]

However, it is unclear to me why few of the new geek musicians are involved with the filk community. Do they not know about it? Are they judging it to be for amateurs? Do they not feel included, perhaps based on musical style, or not directly sci-fi content or some other factor? Do they not want to share performance space? Is there some other cultural factor that creates a divide?

I think that a great case study in this question would be the reaction to Luke Ski being the filk guest of honor at Arisia.

[ultimatepsi]

That is one of the incidents that help form the thought expressed in this post. I don't however have all the information.

[etherial]

Fucking Luke Ski. I hope he dies in a fire. That was my reaction to him being the Filk Guest of Honor. Fucking Luke Ski...

[mike46]

I have to say that hoping someone dies in a fire is an **interesting** way of expressing your dislike of someone's musical style, talent/lack of, or whatever it is about him you don't like. As a long time listener to filk and new performer, one of the things about filk that I liked was the openness of most people I've met to different styles, types, etc of music that people bring to the genre, community or whatever you like to think of filk as being.

[londo]

...should I cross post this to filk?

I won't complain about the additional exposure - it's an unlocked post for a reason.

[ultimatepsi]

It's been cross-posted here.

[marmota]

This might be more of a dodge than a fix, but if you're trying to organize filk for a more general purpose convention, calling it a 'musical media' track (or something along those lines) could work as a more catch-all descriptor... and anyone thereby involved can call what they do 'filk' or not at their own discretion?

[ultimatepsi]

That is a reasonable notion, but I worry about alienating the filkers by doing it. I've started suggesting it as a notion to see what the reactions are.

[paradoox]

I think the general consensus after the Arisia Luke Ski incident was it would have been better if he was called the Musial Guest of Honor. Which part of the reason why SJTucker is called the Musical Guest of Honor this year.

[orawnzva]

Any time a musical guest participates in filk programming and everyone has a good time, everyone wins, including the "filk community" per se, whatever the guest is called.

[sirroxton]

My personal exposure to filk has created an association to awkward teens with a highly underdeveloped sense of social embarrassment. I hope that doesn't sound unhelpful, but if you're wondering about people's reaction to the label, I think that's a common view.

[ultimatepsi]

That's curious. I tend to think of filkers as being older than me for the most part.

[sirroxton]

Fair enough.

I've heard some good filk, but I guess the bad won out. Bad filk produces two emotions: the mortification of listening to a tone deaf acquaintance sing his heart out in public, and the disdain for someone who unjustly thinks himself terribly clever.

[sirroxton]

I guess I have more tolerance for bad folk music, because the singer is trying to convey a personal story instead of trying to showcase his wit. (There's a special place in my heart for Don White.)

[ratatosk]

Filk to me has a lot to do with style and not so much with content. I think you could teach a computer to distinguish filk from other folk music without teaching it English. No, I don't know enough to describe the differences

[ldwheeler]

I would note that I've heard violin, flute, dulcimer, trumpet, trombone and several other instruments in filk circles/contexts. (I'm curious as to why you think a horn would be unwelcome in a filk context.)

The one statement you've made that I find curious is about there being a lack of "participatory" music in filk. Whereas filk's basic ethos or ethic if you will, at its core, is all about participation -- about the seasoned performers (and, quite frankly, many of the most seasoned musicians I've heard have been in filk contexts) and the amateurs alike taking their turns in the circle, supporting/encouraging one another, harmonizing, etc. So I'm just curious as to where that perception comes from, or if I'm misunderstanding you. Thanks.

[siderea]

I would note that I've heard violin, flute, dulcimer, trumpet, trombone and several other instruments in filk circles/contexts.

I've also seen cats at dog shows; doesn't mean they had much to do there.

The one statement you've made that I find curious is about there being a lack of "participatory" music in filk.

Speaking as an enduring fan of filk music and filksings, and as a non-filker musician, you're exemplifying two of the big blind-spots of the filk community.

1) Filk circles are the least participatory musical activity that I go to that isn't just frankly a concert where you're supposed to shut up and listen. Filkers have an astonishingly low bar for what qualifies as "participatory": you think turn-taking is participatory. Participatory to most instrumentalists (and many singers) is almost the opposite of turn-taking. A filk circles are, as you say, all about taking turns -- practical upshot being that a filk circle involves something like 90% listening to other people, and 10% music making, per participant.

[ldwheeler]

I see your point, and I acknowledge that may have been your, and others', experience in filk contexts -- but I hope you realize that it's not universal. (And I should acknowledge straight-up that I'm not an instrumentalist myself, so take this with a grain or two of salt.)

A few weeks ago, I was at FilKONtario, and in the filk circle we had a violinist, a flutist, a dulcimerist, a full rock band, several guitarists, etc. And it wasn't a case that, as you imply, OK, everyone shuts up until it's your "turn." The violinist probably played on about half the songs in the evening, for instance -- adding accents and improvisations and so forth as she desired. She wasn't asked to, or asked not to -- she just did it, and everybody liked it. That's not uncommon, from my observation. Indeed, it's common in most of the filk circles I've attended (note the emphasis -- it may be different in your neck of the woods) -- for people to welcome any and all musicians in the room to jump in