A Post CoE Manifesto

[coffee_kris]

So, three months (how can it only be and already be three months?) since they aired CoE, I continue to try to reconcile my feelings about Ianto Jones, his relationship with Captain Jack Harkness, the version of both I saw on Torchwood Series 1 and 2, and the, well, to put it Who-ily, the "Left Turn" it all took in CoE.

I'm still utterly torn (and

Comments

[gravitule]

Drum-roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I so agree with you.....(HW308).

[fide_et_spe]

Well I'm glad to see that people are already agreeing that I'm lovely! Thanks for saying that, I'm dead chuffed.

Did you see by the way that a lovely member has posted a video she made to thank this community? How lovely is that?

Now as to your manifesto, I don't agree about Invisible_lift, but only because of the Ianto/Andy thing, not because of anything else. All the other stories, OK they can be canon. I think Andy is indeed an obnoxious gay hater in that moment, but he isn't in the show we call Torchwood, you are getting confused between CoE and TW. Don't worry though, it's very easy to do.

Ianto can indeed lock the SUV.

I also think that it would be difficult to say Jack loves the Doctor or Rose more than Ianto, apart from anything else, he was pleased to see them in The Stolen Earth, but hardly in the way of someone who loves them more than his actual partner. So yes I agree with you there.

I wonder if I can fix the Lj cut thing? I'll try..

[kelticbanshee]

I've sort of been meaning to do something like this for ages. But I've never really started it, cos CoE still annoys the heck out of me for too many reasons. In short, I so agree with you :) I'd better not get into the long version of that or I'll end up writing my own manifesto in a comment :)

[alba17]

Hah, very interesting. I don't agree with all of your points (namely, #2 and 3), but LOL'd at the Andy bit, your citation of authority. No, dead never means dead, that was a completely absurd thing for RTD to say, it pissed me off, it was so ridiculous. Hello, gloves that revive the dead, main character who can't stay dead, companion who keeps traveling from parallel universe she supposedly can't leave, etc.

[love_jackianto]

'No, dead never means dead, that was a completely absurd thing for RTD to say'
When RTD said that I couldn't help but think that he was really saying was, 'dead means dead if your not an important character TO ME'. Sadly, but not surprisingly, I think RTD never saw Ianto as anything more than Jack love interest. RTD always went on and on about how brilliant and special Gwen was, but I think the only thing he ever said about Ianto was that he was Jack's boy toy and that Gareth was hot.

[alba17]

That's a good point. There's always been that huge dissonance between how the fandom sees Ianto and Gwen vs. TPTB, including RTD. In any case, it was just a dumb argument for him to make given all the "un-deadness" that's happened in the Whoniverse.

[love_jackianto]

'In any case, it was just a dumb argument for him to make given all the 'un-deadness' that's happened in the Whoniverse.'
Yeah, but I think the outcry over Ianto's death really took RTD by surprise (again it goes back to Ianto being JUST a love interest in his mind) and he went on the defensive, 'Ianto's dead and he's going to stay dead, stop complaining about it'. I'm sure he thought people were going to love CoE (he did say that he knew it would be great because he wrote it), and when they didn't he didn't know what do.

[roguemarch]

WORD! Your manifesto totally rocks and I agree with it 100%

Preach it!