Killers, and the problematic portrayal of the Juno twins

[weggsley]

Last night we were talking about the episode ‘Killers’ in the online chat (there was also some talk about this in the previous post in this community), where I tried to articulate my issues with the problematic depictions of Northern Ireland in the episode. I've decided to write more fully about this here, as I've since had time to crystallise my

Comments

[polly_b]

Thanks for posting this. I learned some things that I didn't know, and I'm always happy when that happens, especially when it comes to the busting of stereotypes.

We don't get nearly enough education in world history here in the United States, I can tell you that. It's embarrassing, really.

[weggsley]

It's confusing enough even for those of us with a connection to Ireland, so don't worry too much :-). But yes, stereotypes tend to be a bit annoying and reductive. It's good to pull them to bits on occasion :-)

[snycock]

I guess it is possible that "Tommy" and "Dylan" could have been given by the adoptive parents, who may or may not have known the relevance of names. Heck, those parents might not have cared about the kid's Irish heritage at all. I was going to say the same for "Juno" until you pointed out that the biological father and mother had that name, too. So, still writer research fail. :-)

I'm glad that I have a practical reason to dislike Jim's Aran jumper, though. I think it's too bulky on him and doesn't show off his nice physique.

[weggsley]

I guess it is possible that "Tommy" and "Dylan" could have been given by the adoptive parents, who may or may not have known the relevance of names. Heck, those parents might not have cared about the kid's Irish heritage at all.

The only flaw in that argument is that, given Juno's accent (which despite being garbled is clearly meant to be a NI accent), the twins must have been adopted and brought up within Northern Ireland, in which case their adoptive parents would be well aware of the naming conventions! It is possible they were adopted by non-catholics/non-republicans, however which might explain their un-Irish names. And I suppose there is no evidence of their own IRA connections, just that of their father, so they may have no sectarian leanings themselves, and just be crooks!

[snycock]

Oh, good point - I hadn't read Jim's story fully. Is it possible that they could have been raised by non-Irish families in Northern Ireland? Like a family born in the UK who had moved to Northern Ireland?

[weggsley]

It would be pretty much impossible for anyone to live in Northern Ireland, and be unaware of such things :-)

[magician113]

Hee. A mini-rant that provides education--awesome! I have a theory about how Dylan got his name. When they were separated after a year and he went to a family who was interested in emigrating to Wales. Since he had no birth certificate, they applied for an official one and took advantage of the clean slate to change his name to something more Welsh-y. I do wonder why they chose the name Juno when there are any number of more Irish-sounding names to be had, most of them beginning with O'. Perhaps having a less common name made it easier for the twins to find each other.

I don't think that Americans feel all Irish are gun-toting IRA thugs, but I do think when most Americans think of Northern Ireland, all of the bad stuff that makes the news (because no good stuff makes the news) colors our perceptions. And when we see IRA we don't think of them as moderators. Poor TS with no budget not being able to portray them any better than a big budget movie like The Devil's Own can hardly be condemned

[weggsley]

I have a theory about how Dylan got his name. When they were separated after a year and he went to a family who was interested in emigrating to Wales. Since he had no birth certificate, they applied for an official one and took advantage of the clean slate to change his name to something more Welsh-y.

Ha, good one! Except the only Welsh person called Dylan I've ever come across is Dylan Thomas (which makes me wonder if that is where the writers got 'Dylan' and 'Tommy'... lol). It's not a common first name in the UK at all. And they wouldn't need to 'emigrate' to Wales, as Wales is also part of the UK, and a mere hop and a skip across the Irish Sea. But I doubt they did anyway, as Dylan's accent (assuming we ever hear him speak - maybe we only hear Tommy!) is a Northern Irish one (albeit garbled) :-).

Juno is an odd name, though. And we know from the episode it is definitely their Irish birth name. They must have some interesting ancestry!

I do think when most Americans think of Northern Ireland, all of the bad stuff that makes the

[briarwood]

Except the only Welsh person called Dylan I've ever come across is Dylan Thomas

Well, Welsh resident here. It's a moderately common name in Welsh-speaking parts of Wales. Not so much in the English-speaking areas, but I know a few Dylans.

I've never come across a US-made TV show that deals with the NI Troubles in a way I've found realistic. Not saying they don't exist, but...

Your history lesson hits the mark, but my biggest problem with the Juno twins is unrelated: identical twins are never identical enough to pull off that deception.

[weggsley]

Well, Welsh resident here. It's a moderately common name in Welsh-speaking parts of Wales. Not so much in the English-speaking areas, but I know a few Dylans.

Excellent to know, Magician may well be onto something, in that case :-)

I've never come across a US-made TV show that deals with the NI Troubles in a way I've found realistic. Not saying they don't exist, but... Me neither... actually, I must admit, I went on a three week trip to America in the 90s, during which I was invited to a couple of music events organised by an Irish American community organisation in North Carolina. I was living in Ireland at that time, and had gone over there to play music there myself. Even amongst that group of people, the understanding of Northern Ireland and the Troubles was pretty shockingly reliant on unrealistic stereotypes. I don't think more than a handful of the people I met had ever set foot in Ireland, but they all had very strong opinions, some of which were wildly offensive and bore no resemblance to the reality I lived with, I spent

[mab_browne]

Do you feel better now? *g* Thanks, Bev. Some of this is useful if ever I go wandering back to Pros fic, for example.

[bluewolf458]

Killers is one TS ep I thoroughly dislike, and reading this does, I think, at least in part provide an explantion of why. I knew a lot of that Irish history, though I couldn't have put dates to it

[magician113]

I can buy people mistaking one for the other especially if they were never seen together; but unless Dylan stayed permanently in hiding,

You know I do remember at least one case where twins were separated at birth and eventually found each other. I expect part of it could have been that at least there would have been records, even if they had been sealed, so it's a matter of legality to get to see them. But the thing about what Dylan did in between the jobs is problematical for me too. Does he live in Seattle or Tacoma and just come to Cascade long enough to shoot someone and then leave? Does he stay inside a luxury apartment but can never leave for fear of discovery?

And you bring up such good points. Being raised by separate families from the age of one (or earlier) what would make one, much less both of them have the temperament to be killers? Every bit of common sense flies out the window for the sake of the "gimmick" of the twin killers.