on female characters and being clitbolluxed

[tielan]

On erasure of female characters in fanfic.

In conclusion: there are no bad female characters, only fans who are bad about female characters.

Often, those fans are us, too.

Comments

[fickery]

Sometimes I'm thankful I don't have time to read fic these days (and precious little time to write it). I hear from others about all the terrible sexism in fandoms like the Avengers and I'm boggled. Not sure why--I know that internalized misogyny is A Thing--but I find it inexplicable and disappointing. There are male characters I find sympathetic and have enormous affection for, but (even though I write primarily shipper fic) without the women characters who are so complex and layered and flawed and fascinating, I never would've started writing fanfic at all.

I'm always disappointed by writers who see character development as a zero-sum game: in order to build up one character they have to tear down another. Especially if the other character is a woman. Female characters don't have to be perfect to be 3-dimensional and real; in fact, they *can't* be.

[tielan]

Well, internalised misogyny also encompasses our individual sense of comfort with gender and sexuality.

I can't count how many people I've heard talk about their gender identity issue in connection with their problems in writing female characters.

These are generally self-aware people, mind you - so they're aware that the difficulty of dealing with their own gender ID, body image, and headspace was alleviated in their fannish life by focusing only on male characters who didn't have to deal with the issues that they did. It's a form of escapism.

Which is good for the individual, but problematic when it becomes a way of dealing with the difficulties of being a woman in a transitional world: just be a man instead!

[amenirdis]

I think she makes some good points. And I think the answer to why women bash female characters is unfortunately simple -- women hate other women

[tielan]

Well, I think we live in a world that sees "being a woman" as an innately inferior thing.

This comes out in our attitudes to all things that pertain to women - but certainly crystallises in the reaction of women to other women - as you've noted before - because we haven't quite grasped the concept of "there is no one right way for a woman to be". It's hard for people to accept that what works for one woman's life, won't work for another, and our society and our societal stories, hopes, dreams, and aspirations have to leave room for that.

At present, they don't, but I think that, as a society, we're working on that. Slowly, yes, but surely, too.

At the least, I'm hoping that from this discussion some people will question their choices and ask themselves WHY. That they'll at least be self-aware and maybe ask if it's the women they're hating, or if it's themselves?

Obvs, this is mostly focused on female fans than male ones - but as you noted, men don't usually hate on women like this. Other ways, yes. Like this? not so much.

[amenirdis]

I find it interesting that in the hundreds of comments and reviews I have had dozens and dozens bashing Teyla, Jennifer, and Sam. And every single one of them was from a woman. All of the men -- 100% -- and about 50% of the readers are men -- have been fine with Teyla, Jennifer and Sam. All of them have been fine with Teyla/John. All of the bashing, without exception, is coming from women. In a crowd that has an actual gender mix, like Amazon customers, this is frighteningly clear.

[lyryk]

That they'll at least be self-aware and maybe ask if it's the women they're hating, or if it's themselves?

This. It's unnerving how so many female readers seem to unconditionally hate female characters. Even a tiny bit of self-awareness would be great, really.

[lyryk]

I'm a bit iffy about tumblr, but I'll bookmark that link to read sometime. Thanks!

In conclusion: there are no bad female characters, only fans who are bad about female characters.

+1 to that.