holier-than thou

[threadwalker]

....a 10 minute essay on the morning's thoughts. At some point I may actually rewrite this properly. Right now I see many cans of worms, it's just where my brain was at.So just now I was thinking about holier-than -thou behavior. It started with certain environmentalist and vegan behavior and turned naturally towards the Puritans

Comments

[kimuchi]

Even so, I see some value to "faking it" even when the virtue displayed isn't real. I'm essentially a self-centered being, but I can do a fair amount of good in the world faking it. :)

[asakiyume]

And sometimes, by just practicing or faking it, you can end up having the feeling or inclination genuinely--it's strange, isn't it?

[threadwalker]

it's true

[asakiyume]

And oh, threadwalker, I was meaning to make an actual reply to your post, but I got interrupted... I was going to say how perceptive I thought it was that you linked displays of right-think (about whatever--veganism, environmentalism, Good Parenting<--my particular bugbear) to the desire to prove to yourself and others that you're among the elect,metaphorically speaking. I think you're right--it's a way of marking yourself off. I don't even like the concept of purity anymore, because it seems that people use it mainly as a way of feeling superior to other people. It's great not to eat meat, and it's great to recycle, and sure, it would be great if more people did those things... but I think it's not so hot when, because a person recycles, she or he some how feels superior to other people. You never know the other person's story... they may not recycle their bottles, but maybe they're sponsoring an orphan in Uganda or working in a hospice or whatever... I used to feel kind of smug (hate to admit it) because I used cloth diapers... but

[tcharazazel]

Heh, it's just an improved version of controlling society, so instead of living directly in fear of God, they now are convincing themselves and others they they are good and thus one of the elect. Of course, fear of hell is still an underlying factor, however, they added some more layers on top of it. Now, such behavior can have positive results, but then it can be taken too far or just be faked as kimuchi pointed out

[zestyping]

It is the line between good behavior and goodness is so hard to track.This is a hard question. At first i was unclear how it would even be possible to tell the difference, since when me do something "good" it both makes me feel good and helps support some goal i value, at the same time. It's hard to separate the two because the feeling-good part is a consequence of the valued goal

[threadwalker]

Yeah, and I especially agree about the presence of contempt. I think it starts with the feeling of superiority and shifts pretty quickly over. The first bit is trickier.

Seeking out new information is a good sign, but given the accounts of various religious movements and such, it's not nesecarily true. "Information" seeking may just be an effort to fuel a fire. Knowing all about witches (as they imagined/understood them) was a fever of information exploration, but not what I would call open-mindedness to new ideas. Another tricky line.

[zestyping]

I think the key is how you respond to information that challenges your sense of yourself as virtuous.

[threadwalker]

good point. Yes. :) Defensive vs. inquistive and eager to correct I would say.

[brookswift]

yeah. you know, i've been blasted by enviornmentalists around here for even suggesting that a hummer (h3 specifically) might have less impact on the planet than a hybrid car. the idea is that someone did a study on the complete and total enviornmental effects of cars (not just hummers and hybrids, but a few hundred different models of cars). the study was called dust to dust because it covered everything from the materials used to make the car, planning, fuels used in truck transport, etc all the way to scrapping and disposal of the car after it's use. the basic idea was the because of the complexity of a pruis engine and how new and different it is, it ends up costing the enviornment more than it saves over the car's lifetime in fuel savings over a car like the hummer h3, which is build entirely out of well known and dependable parts. still, it's not by THAT much, but enough to make it noticable.

[threadwalker]

Interesting, and yes, that's one of the mad kinds of blindness that result- being locked into an ideological position (belief based) without willingness to examine the facts because they seem to contradict that position.

[rich_herds_cats]

It's all holistic. Once people accept that things become clearer. The most efficent solar cells are made out of some of the rarest materials on this earth, which involves mining tons of minerals to obtain them. Often in some conviently out of the way developing country. Then you've got offshore windfarms, where the expected failure rate is so high that it's a wonder they get built in the first place. I'll have to find that study, it'd be interesting to see just how much depth they go in to.

[threadwalker]

yeah, silly peoples. Arg.

[vinilaa]

I understand your distinction and I think it's a great point.