I despise this episode, seriously. I DO NOT like it at all. Yeah, there were some sweet moments, but damn, they were few and this episode made it very fast to the bottom of my list. Interesting enough, there are other S4 episodes in the same place. Gee, wonder why
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That's fair enough - I can kind of see why you didn't like it because of the way Hardison was asking but I didn't think it was necessarily bad writing making him out of character or anything. I think it was just that, in the episode, his flaws were more obvious than usual.
I think your opinion is quite a popular one on this episode from what I've seen - it doesn't seem to have been received well.
I agree that Hardison 'striking' and sending them into an empty vault was bad on the character's part, though - totally agree with Eliot on that one.
So yeah, it's definitely not my favourite episode but I think it was interesting in terms of how it showed the Nate/Hardison dynamic.
I agree with you, the more silent moments were interesting considering the Nate/Hardison dynamic.
I'm not sure if it's Aldis' acting or if they wrote Hardison like this, no idea. I think my problem was that it wasn't only one scene, but several where I didn't like his attitude. First he went on strike, then while he was on strike and then afterwards.
I've reflected a little about the episode now (and calmed down, lol), also inspired by your and nightcamedown 's words and while I still don't like the episode, I can see some of the points you're making. But it will still be one where I will pick out single scenes and never view the whole one again.
But you know what? This is something I love about Leverage: We are all mature enough that we can accept opinions different from our own. Without fighting.
It's one of my favourite things about this fandom - there are so many different ways that the show can be understood and interpreted and yet everyone is still friendly and accepting of different opinions :)
I wasn't terribly fond of it, to be honest. I actually found myself switching to another channel a couple of times, which does mean I missed about fifteen minutes, but that's how much I didn't like it.
I love Hardison, but I really don't think he makes a good leader/mastermind. At least not yet. When he grows up a little? Maybe. Just not right now.
I have to agree with the two posters above. I frankly wanted to switch back to the mini-marathon of Once Upon a Time. I felt like Hardison's character was going back in his development. I really don't think that he's so incredibly self-absorbed after three seasons. He was acting like a sixteen year old who couldn't comprehend anyone's contributions besides his own. I also feel like the whole episode was a much over-used concept and didn't introduce any new ideas about Hardison or the team or being a team or a thief or anything. And I'm just really tired of how it seems Eliot and Sophie don't seem to get to use any new skills while Hardison and Parker are suddenly doing half of the con themselves. How is Hardison still doing all of the hacker stuff when we're watching him doing grifting for half of these cons?
I kind of get what you mean about Hardison's character development but I sort of think that he made it pretty clear he wanted to run a con at some point and I think maybe he had to run one and have it go wrong for him to realise that he's still got a lot to learn.
I think with the roles in the team, Sophie has quite a fixed role anyway. She's the grifter of the group and I'm not so sure she wants to do what the others do - we have seen her use some stuff that Eliot taught her earlier in the season but I don't think she wants to do anything other than what she does, you know? With Eliot, I think it's often the case that he doesn't get to try other skills so much because of the nature of his role in the group - he has to be a hitter because otherwise they're vulnerable and he wouldn't like that - but, you know, he grifted in the episode so I guess there's that.
But yeah, we're all entitled to our own opinions, that's just my personal reading of the show :)
I think what she means is that in the earlier seasons, Eliot and Parker were both doing a lot of grifting as well, it wasn't usually enough with Sophie, while Hardison was needed in the van to do the technical stuff.
Suddenly in S4 Hardison is doing a lot of grifting, so he's much more out of the van. As we've seen, the others are obviously incapable of the technical stuff, so who's doing that when Hardison is grifting?
Yes, Eliot is the hitter - but suddenly Parker is the one freeing Hardison and throwing punches, knocking two or more guys out? If he can ONLY be the hitter (which is fine, I don't mind), why not at least leave him being the one with the skills?
Do you know what I mean?
I think we all know Hardison wanted to run a con and that's not really the issue (at least not mine ;)), it was more the way they let him do it. Or Aldis played it, no idea.
I do get what you mean about Hardison grifting a lot - he does seem to be.
Hmmm, I see your point about Parker but I think it had to be that way for the plot to work as Eliot wasn't nearby at the time, whereas we know Parker is on campus. Plus, Eliot teaches her things and we saw her kick ass on occasion as early as in Season 1 ;)
Aww, thank you - I'm glad you think so! I sometimes think I over-analyse certain things but I enjoy doing it so that's the main thing!
Yeah, I liked the episode too but I think we seem to be the only ones! I agree, it was nice to see the Nate - Hardison dynamics come to the front. Hardison is often more often associated with Parker or Eliot which isn't a bad thing. But there's a really interesting dynamic between Nate and Hardison that makes for interesting viewing.
Yes, I think Nate seems to be a lot more peaceful now and it shows in the way he's interacting with all of the characters.
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I think your opinion is quite a popular one on this episode from what I've seen - it doesn't seem to have been received well.
I agree that Hardison 'striking' and sending them into an empty vault was bad on the character's part, though - totally agree with Eliot on that one.
So yeah, it's definitely not my favourite episode but I think it was interesting in terms of how it showed the Nate/Hardison dynamic.
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I'm not sure if it's Aldis' acting or if they wrote Hardison like this, no idea. I think my problem was that it wasn't only one scene, but several where I didn't like his attitude. First he went on strike, then while he was on strike and then afterwards.
I've reflected a little about the episode now (and calmed down, lol), also inspired by your and nightcamedown 's words and while I still don't like the episode, I can see some of the points you're making. But it will still be one where I will pick out single scenes and never view the whole one again.
But you know what? This is something I love about Leverage: We are all mature enough that we can accept opinions different from our own. Without fighting.
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I love Hardison, but I really don't think he makes a good leader/mastermind. At least not yet. When he grows up a little? Maybe. Just not right now.
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I think maybe Hardison had to try running a con t0 realise for himself that he still had stuff to learn.
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I kind of get what you mean about Hardison's character development but I sort of think that he made it pretty clear he wanted to run a con at some point and I think maybe he had to run one and have it go wrong for him to realise that he's still got a lot to learn.
I think with the roles in the team, Sophie has quite a fixed role anyway. She's the grifter of the group and I'm not so sure she wants to do what the others do - we have seen her use some stuff that Eliot taught her earlier in the season but I don't think she wants to do anything other than what she does, you know? With Eliot, I think it's often the case that he doesn't get to try other skills so much because of the nature of his role in the group - he has to be a hitter because otherwise they're vulnerable and he wouldn't like that - but, you know, he grifted in the episode so I guess there's that.
But yeah, we're all entitled to our own opinions, that's just my personal reading of the show :)
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Suddenly in S4 Hardison is doing a lot of grifting, so he's much more out of the van. As we've seen, the others are obviously incapable of the technical stuff, so who's doing that when Hardison is grifting?
Yes, Eliot is the hitter - but suddenly Parker is the one freeing Hardison and throwing punches, knocking two or more guys out? If he can ONLY be the hitter (which is fine, I don't mind), why not at least leave him being the one with the skills?
Do you know what I mean?
I think we all know Hardison wanted to run a con and that's not really the issue (at least not mine ;)), it was more the way they let him do it. Or Aldis played it, no idea.
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Hmmm, I see your point about Parker but I think it had to be that way for the plot to work as Eliot wasn't nearby at the time, whereas we know Parker is on campus. Plus, Eliot teaches her things and we saw her kick ass on occasion as early as in Season 1 ;)
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Yeah, I liked the episode too but I think we seem to be the only ones! I agree, it was nice to see the Nate - Hardison dynamics come to the front. Hardison is often more often associated with Parker or Eliot which isn't a bad thing. But there's a really interesting dynamic between Nate and Hardison that makes for interesting viewing.
Yes, I think Nate seems to be a lot more peaceful now and it shows in the way he's interacting with all of the characters.
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