Everything looks more intelligent in lists...

[thedeadparrot]

1. Okay, anyone want into Writely? I can invite anyone these days.

2. This article about the gender gap between men and women and the internet is very interesting, because this sort of thing that keeps women from going into CS. Women really don't think they're as good at computers as men. I mean, I suffer from it, too. Like, I still think I suck

Comments

[thedeadparrot]

Yeah, it is quite interesting, because I don't think these ways of looking at things aren't necessarily biological in nature. (Or genetic, anyway.) It's probably a result of women socialized to believe that they're to blame for things, while for men, when things go wrong, it's because of some outside factor.

And the "male expertise" thing can be found everywhere, but even more so in technical things (like the internet and computers), which probably also contributes.

[lykaios]

5. Ditto.

[thedeadparrot]

Yeah. I can't stand to see the politicizing everywhere. Things like "Israel is ev0l OMG!" and "Lebanon totally deserves it!" make me want to scream even more.

[lykaios]

Yeah I'm kind of not seeing how anyone can be so for or against a side when it seems everyone is kind of in the wrong here...but what do I know!

[xaeris]

"Men, in other words, blame the technology. Women blame themselves

[thedeadparrot]

See, I'm probably coming from a different point of view than you, but I completely disagree with you about making women treat computers more like men.

When I see "blaming the tool", I think of that douchebag who complains that Ubuntu blows simply because it doesn't come out of the box with proprietary graphics drivers and MP3 support, when it's almost trivial getting that sort of thing set up with a 5min search on Ubuntu Forums and there are good reasons for not including them by default. Yeah, he has every right to say/believe whatever he wants, but I also have every right to believe that he's a douchebag who should shut the fuck up and actually put some effort into learning something.

I think of the asshole who will fuck up his own computer, by not reading the directions carefully enough, and then blame it on the computer, not his own incompetence.

Yeah, when you actually accomplish something, you should gain self-confidence, but before then, you shouldn't go in thinking you know more than you do.

[xaeris]

Yes, no one likes someone who assume that his problem has to be unique and therefore everyone else should stop everything they're doing to help him. But that isn't experimenting, it's complaining.

In fact, that's precisely what I'm arguing /against/. If someone has the confidence that she can find answers herself (even if that means spending 5 minutes searching a forum), then she'll grow more comfortable with computers. On the other hand, if she's worried that clicking around will break something, and so she calls over her husband/boyfriend/son whenever something goes wrong, then she won't learn.

Complaining that things don't work isn't blaming the tool, it's blaming everybody else for not making it work immediately. For me, blaming the tool means that you assume computers are stupid, people are smart, and you'll do what you can to teach the stupid computer to understand people. If men don't do that, they're not doing the right thing either.

[thedeadparrot]

I think there's a definite difference in perception here. :p

The article (I think) is talking about the kind of situation that I was talking about, though those were more extreme examples. That sort of arrogance of expecting the computer to be what you expect it to be, and not what it is, you know?

I think that people should have the confidence to look for answers, and also the humility to know that you should look for answers.

[xaeris]

By the way, if you have no shortage of Writely accounts, could you send me an invite? I doubt I'll use it very much, but I always like seeing new webapps.

[thedeadparrot]

Just collaborated you on a blank document. That should invite you.

[bursar42]

Ditto. Though I thought I already had an account. But the usual e-mails and passwords don't work, so I guess not.

[dandelion_black]

I feel the same way about the whole computer thing, about being stupider than all the guys in CS. For a while I wondered if it was true, because there were some girls in my class who were totally retarded. But sometimes I think it's more because boys will try to b.s. their way through what they don't know, or exaggerate what they do know, and girls just admit that they don't know something.

[thedeadparrot]

Yeah, I've gotten that impression, especially when you get to know the guys better. Then their actual level of knowledge starts to appear. :p