How to Win Friends and Alienate Readers

[thedeadlyhook]

Thank you for all the lovely birthday wishes! And thanks so much for the virtual milk and cookies, lyrstzha! And Happy Belated Birthday to you as well - I hope you had a great day!

I've been reading a few first reactions on my flist to the latest Buffy comic (#35), and... wow. I'm sorta speechless. But only sorta.

Comments

[thedeadlyhook]

Nah, I'm actually not assuming that - it's been pretty clear for some time that romance is the stuff that cause hives for him, considering how often such things were only used as setup for the inevitable misery to follow. And the misery-wallowing was kind of a tip-off too, not to mention the main reason I couldn't make myself even try to give Dollhouse a chance - that story was explicitly designed to make a female protagonist suffer for the audience's amusement. But it grates me to see JW held up as feminist just for having created Buffy in the first place, and making pro-woman statements in interviews, donating to charities, whatever, and yet, there's his work, saying something else altogether.

[red_satin_doll]

But it grates me to see JW held up as feminist just for having created Buffy in the first place, and making pro-woman statements in interviews, donating to charities, whatever, and yet, there's his work, saying something else altogether.

THANK YOU.

ETA: When I discovered buffy this year, I wish I'd discovered fandom, specifically, through LJ and not more general online sites like the ATV Club (although Noel Murray's episode reviews were great reads.) I WISH I could have encountered essays like this, so I would have been at least slightly prepared for the jaw-dropping WTF-ery of the whole enterprise.

Forgot to add earlier - here from the link in elisi's essay.

[flake_sake]

Yep, the treehouseanalogy fits perfectly. I'd actually fit into the narrow category of girls that are comic fans as well.
But I read comparatively few US comics, mainly the non mainstream ones, so aside from references to Alan Moore, all their bla was pointless to me, because all those 0815 superheroes make me yawn. Give me a Sandman reference and we can talk comics, Joss!

And I'm really having massive problems with the male gazyness of it all. And with the lameness.

[thedeadlyhook]

The thing that gets me is that there are comics designed for the female gaze, but most of them are Japanese and the mainstream American comic market likes to pretend they don't exist. The idea of trying to cater directly to a female audience still feels like a radical one in the U.S. market, and isn't that a sad statement?

[tree_of_jessie]

hiya! came here because someone mentioned your post in the comments for this post.

THIS. SO THIS. thank you for writing these things. totally linking a bunch of my friends right now.

on a moderately related note, it occurs to me that you may be a good person to ask about this: can you recommend some non-misogynist mangas a lady should read? i am totally in a manga rut, and made the mistake of buying some bullshit like hot gimmick and oh my god my eye just twitched typing that. i can't keep making these mistakes; it's expensive. the internet recommends some of the stupidest things sometimes. help?

ps: tsukasa is my very favourite in all of lucky star. good work! :>

[thedeadlyhook]

Thanks! I realized after this that I hadn't commented myself on elisi's great post. *facepalm* I've since remedied that.

Hmm, good "non-misogynist manga" recs? That's kind of a tough one. Not because manga tends to be misogynist per se, but as you discovered with Hot Gimmick, sometimes the ol' cultural divide starts coming into play - I've seen lots of strong female characters in manga, but not many I would term feminist in the Western sense. That said, I personally really liked Happy Mania for an interesting depiction of a female lead who's goofed up and imperfect, and yet wholly sympathetic in all the ways the Buffy comic has been failing me. (The ending, tho... eh. Not entirely what I wanted, but... see above notes about the cultural divide.) Also, I could probably make a more specific rec or two if I knew what kind of manga you have liked in past or what sorts of styles you enjoy? There's a big gulf between the likes of Battle Angel and, say, Peach Girl. Which I'd also both recommend, but for different reasons

[elisi]

Am run off my feet, just wanted to state my support for this post!

[thedeadlyhook]

Thanks, nice to see you!

[elisi]

And you! :)

Also this almost made me choke:

Oh, and make sure the art is really cartoony looking, because adult readers who may already feel slightly embarrassed about buying a comic book will feel extra-embarrassed to be seen reading something that looks like it was specifically targeted at kids. And include sex scenes too. Yes, the same artist. No, not ironically.

'Cause dude... what were they thinking?

Re. the whole Watchmen thing, then I'd not considered that angel before, (despite the Rorschach mask etc), and it only goes to highlight how very bad the writing and plotting are. *shakes head*

(Apparently I still have no great thoughts. It's probably because I can't take it seriously without fuming.)

[thedeadlyhook]

Just as a guess, because I don't have the issues on hand, I do feel like the Watchmen references are probably just there for flavor, as much as all the other comic-geek jokes are, not so much to actually add anything to the story.

And yeah... I don't think that Jeanty is a bad artist, but he's got a style that is not the one I would've picked for this particular material. Whether the story is meant to be serious or not, I can't tell, because the art makes it look like a parody either way.

[jwaneeta]

I saw your Bday coming up on my homepage, but then I spaced. Sorry, and Happy Birthday!

[thedeadlyhook]

Thanks! I celebrated a day late, but it was fun!

[jwaneeta]

Poor sick one. I hug you on the internets.

I gave up and opened a futon n my studio last night and watched Dante's Cove, and thought of you.

[thedeadlyhook]

Hee! How went the Dante's Cove-ige? Have they finally gotten into the Historical Society?

[jwaneeta]

PS: I saw some of that Buffy art in a review and my jaw sagged. What were they thinking?

[thedeadlyhook]

There's some very scary proportions on those figures. I think they're down to maybe four heads tall now. And everyone has such tiny hands.

[jwaneeta]

It's not bad animation art, or edgy whatever art, but you're right: FUCK is it insulting for a new audience. I mean, what the absolute hell.

EDIT AGAIN: neither does it shed glory on comics as an art form for an entirely new audience, which makes my hair prickle.

[thedeadlyhook]

I really think it's just a weird mismatch of art style and story. There are places where the story seems to need to be taken seriously, and places where comedic exaggeration would be fine... only we're only getting the comedic exaggeration, so it's like watching the whole thing being performed in clown noses.