No One is "Entitled" to Anything, but that's not the point ...

Nov 04, 2011 23:26

A great article I read in Newsweek, You Say You Want a Revolution,, compares the Tea Party to Occupy Wall Street in that both extremes are shouting their disenfranchisement with government and demanding a reckoning. I disagree that Tea Partyists have any kind of workable answer but, yes, even I can realize that two such divergent groups have ( Read more... )

societal breakdown, reaganomics, socialism, taxes, benefits, bailouts

Leave a comment

Comments 44

alobar November 5 2011, 07:52:18 UTC
> No One is "Entitled" to Anything

I disagree.

I feel we all are entitled to ALL the money paid into Social Security plus interest. Congress stole our money and we are entitled to getting it back.

When I started paying into Social Security, the retirement age was 65. Congress changed the rules without our permission. We are entitled to getting a nice fat check for the year stolen from us.

We all are entitled to a living wage.

We are entitled to live in a society where the rich pay their share of the taxes.

We are entitled to a a government with the best interests of the 99% as high priority #1.

I'll believe corporations are people when the state of Texas executes one. Until then, we are entitled to a government which may not take donations from corporations.

We are entitled to having police which obey the law.

We are entitled to putting cops and politicians who break the law into prison, where they belong.

I could go on, but it is past my bedtime.

Reply

moropus November 5 2011, 15:56:39 UTC
I feel I'm entitled to a government that won't shut down 2-3 times a year and threaten to stop paying me my retirement and kill off my poor old mom who has cancer.

As the disabled veteran of 2, count them, 2 actual wars, plus that Cold War and War on terrorism, I feel I'm entitled to know my checks will be there and that the 1% can't bounce me out of my little house and take my car away every time somebody in DC has a temper tantrum.

I'm entitled to timely health care, not the months of waiting that go on because now that I'm used up and thrown away, they don't need me anymore.

Speak for yourself. I'm entitled to plenty.

Reply

ragnarok20 November 5 2011, 20:49:28 UTC
Congress can't steal what wasn't owed to us.The OASI program is in no sense a federally-administered “insurance program” under which each worker pays premiums over the years and acquires at retirement an indefeasible right to receive for life a fixed monthly benefit, irrespective of the conditions which Congress has chosen to impose from time to time. - The Social Securitu Administration, Flemming v. Nestor, 1960

A statement with which the court concurred saying, "To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of `accrued property rights’ would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to everchanging conditions which it demands."

If there are no accrued property rights, then nothing can be stolen (except in the way in which all taxation is theft in the first place).

Reply

alobar November 6 2011, 13:04:31 UTC
Congress took money out of Social Security which I and everyone else put into it. That is theft, no matter what legalese bullshit the congress & courts choose to impose upon us.

I am entitled to the money which was stolen from me.

Reply


ragnarok20 November 5 2011, 20:59:24 UTC
You're right, trickle down economics doesn't work, but that doesn't mean that free-markets don't work. "Trickle-down economics" is essentially corporate cronyism and the 20th century equivalent of mercantilism.

I mean, really, do you have any grounds for dismissing a free-market other than some stupid bias created by our insufficient political and media system?It’s not their fault they’ve never heard a free market critique of corporate power, never heard anyone pointing out that big business is the biggest beneficiary of big government, and never heard a case for why genuine, freed market competition would be dynamite at the foundations of corporate power. - Kevin Carson, Center for a Stateless Society, http://c4ss.org/content/8630
The fact is that it is big government which creates the conditions necessary for big corporations. Without the former, the costs of entry into a given market would be substantially lower and would create competition in the market which would ( ... )

Reply

sinistertim101 November 5 2011, 21:30:00 UTC
It is not a free market at all.

It is corporatism with the government bailing out big banks and wealthy investors to raise the price of everything which is socialism, and the rest of us fight for every other job that lowers the wages. That is capitalism.

Reply

ragnarok20 November 5 2011, 21:44:28 UTC
Uh, yeah, I know it's not a free-market. I'm pretty sure that was implied in my statement with words like "mercantilism" and "corporate cronyism."

Capitalism and free-markets, however, are not synomymous.At the risk of being misunderstood, I am not a capitalist. Instead, I advocate the free market. Capitalism is a specific economic arrangement with reference to the ownership of property and capital. It happens to be the arrangement I prefer because I believe it is more just, a far better reflection of reality and produces more prosperity than the alternatives. But I wouldn’t crusade for capitalism the way I would crusade for freedom of speech. What I would crusade for is a free market in which individuals exchange or co-operate with each other according to their own choices. - Wendy McElroy, http://www.wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.1321
However, even under capitalist models in the free-market, one would see a greater distribution of wealth. ( ... )

Reply


We are not entitled sinistertim101 November 5 2011, 21:27:17 UTC
People need to get a job. Even if it is minimium wage

Do I blame the recession for a loss of good paying jobs? Yes. This recession taught me not to overspend and to be more responsible for the failures of my life.

I am angry as the rest of the Wall Street movement and the Banks. However, I do agree with the Tea Party that most of these guys are socialists nutcases. I stand by agaisn't greed and corruption but wont stand by people who even admitted they quit their jobs at McDonalds after college so they can sit around and freeze instead because they felt entitled to a good $40,000 a year job fresh out of school.

The fact that Alabama can't find qualified unemployed Americans to pick vegatables at $10/hr (high wage for those with highschool degrees) shows it.

... this is coming from someone who is unemployed and lost everything too. Infact I am applying at Subway right now even though I have a college degree. Why? Because it is the right thing to do and I take responsiblity for not doing well.

Reply

Re: We are not entitled interactiveleaf November 7 2011, 20:50:36 UTC
What jobs? There's a 1.8 BILLION shortfall of jobs globally. Are you seriously saying that everyone who doesn't "get a job" is a lazy slacker?

As for Alabama: Yeah, we're spoiled. Are you seriously saying that that's evidence that everyone who doesn't get a job is a slacker, or something? Where were you going with that?

Reply


Leave a comment

Up