Of course you'll get no argument from me. Man, wouldn't it be amazing if children learned enough linguistics to become adults who know better than to say these things:
-[some language] has no single word for [concept], so that means they never experience [concept]. -[some language] has a lot of words for [concept]. (Protip: English probably has just as many if you actually think about it.) -[some word] means X because it derives etymologically from a word that meant X.
Although, I actually heard that last one ON a linguistics board the other day, so maybe we're just doomed...
Oh to dispel linguistics myths! No, kids, there's not two languages in the US, there's over a hundred, and thousands more in the world outside that. That languages tend to be spoken by smaller groups of people, and the dominance of Mandarin Chinese and European languages has a lot more to do with politics than "rightness." And so! many! more! especially your points 1 and 2, though I keep going back and forth on which one bothers me more of those two...
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by point three, though I suspect it's related to the joke we have in the department about "pencil," "vanilla," and "swivel." Sure, "vanilla" might share a root with "vagina," but it's the rare speaker who would conceive of that today...is that the sort of thing you mean?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by point three, though I suspect it's related to the joke we have in the department about "pencil," "vanilla," and "swivel." Sure, "vanilla" might share a root with "vagina," but it's the rare speaker who would conceive of that today...is that the sort of thing you mean?Yeah, it's like taking that and thinking it actually has any relevance to the modern sense of the word, or even limits what the modern sense of the word can/should(!) be. The discussion that brought it to the front of my mind went like this
( ... )
It would be cool to at least have it offered as an elective. I've forgotten a lot of what I learned in my one college linguistics class, but I'm always fascinated when you drop bits of linguistics knowledge on me.
See, I think you could weave it into English classes, too. The thing about English and English grammar is that it is taught as a series of "do this, not that," with rare opportunity to ever ask why. Does the average high school English teacher know why? Probably not, and they probably don't think it'd matter much. So you get these rote patterns for learning parts of speech, comma rules, semi-colons and the like, and I think it'd be better if we could give students some why, some background. Why are certain verbs in English irregular and weird? There's a good reason for it
( ... )
You will appreciate the eye twitch I developed when a couple of guys who sat beside me at a bake sale complained that the linguistics department was against being prescriptive because "English is just getting so bad and ungrammatical."
To talk about how they are perfect in their own grammar, and about how writing has a fundamentally different grammar than speech, which is why it takes them twelve years (and more) to learn how to write a formal paper.
Yes! I always tried to lay it out for them in ESL ("this is what you write, but this is what you really say"), but I don't think kids in high school get much of that. And then they're so confused when they are told their writing is awful.
You know, when I was an English major in undergrad, I wanted to do anything but teach. And now it's a prime drive in my life. Funny how that works, huh?
I spent my whole undergrad swearing up and down that I would never ever ever be a teacher, and here I am teaching 14-year-olds and liking it.
Appreciate it? I think I just got a sympathetic twitch to go with it! Aaaaah *head in hands*
...I don't think kids in high school get much of that. And then they're so confused when they are told their writing is awful.
Yeah, this certainly pains me. We don't learn about the levels of language use--that writing grammar is a specialized thing, and spoken grammar is really the basis of a language--and I think that's where a lot of the "I have terrible grammar" or "I don't talk good" sort of sentiments come from. One of the things I picked up from a colleague this semester was to reinforce in class that they already have a *perfect* grammar, that many of the things pointed out in morphology and syntax were things they *knew* and *were awesome* at. I think high school kids could use some of that reinforcement, too, but so much of English at that level seems to be about pointing out mistakes. And it turns them off to the subject.
<333! As much as I gripe about 101, I really do love teaching. It's a very rare disease in this department
( ... )
My linguistics prof was Dutch, so we always got to hear an outsider's perspective on spoken English when she taught. It was always "I've noticed an interesting phenomenon with my students' emails..." instead of "English is a strange and mysterious thing that you don't yet understand." I think it was within the first few weeks that she totally blew my mind with the "every language, in every dialect, has perfect grammar in and of itself." World view = exploded.
We say practicum, but I'm learning from being in a different province and surrounded by people confused by my program that they call it many many different things. It's that thing where I teach teenagers English for free and then get evaluated on it!
Thanks for reading! I always love to read about your linguistics shenanigans.
I didn't have any chance at learning about linguistics until college, and I first got into it through a History of French Language class. This class was all in french, so I didn't know the english words for the fancy linguistic things. Haha.
I think Linguistics are severely underrated here in Amurrica.
My awesome Spanish teacher in high school (the first one--I lucked out and had two of 'em) used to tell us when we asked questions, "I don't know, I wasn't invited to the Spanish language party." But honestly, there's a lot in Spanish and English we can explain if we know the history of the languages, and I itch to be able to do so. Of course, I know from teaching 101 in college that my *shiny, shiny* thoughts on language won't necessarily carry through, but...I can't help but want to try.
To some extent, but I don't think it's a terribly well-known field anyways. There's also this interesting and weird thing where English has no regulating body as a language, which makes people a) seriously pedantic and b) seriously pissy about how the language gets used. It's fascinating! but a little scary, heh.
I completely agree with you. I was set on being a vet until my AP English teacher slipped in bits of Linguistics. Then I headed off to college to write stories for English and learn how in Anthropology. :/ (Then later I learned how to enact it with Theater.) Oh, how intriguing it was to combine my linguistics class with my religion class and Middle English lit class.
I think kids could be more excited to write and learn English if they were given a little context.
I think one of the points 'Shime makes above about "all languages have a perfect grammar" is one that could be helpful to kids. Teaching them how to write just enforces the idea that they don't know their own language--but THEY DO, they just don't know the structures we demand of them in writing. Maybe if that was pointed out, it would go over better, be more interesting. *shrug* I dunno. But it'd be fun to try!
Religious studies + Middle English Lit + Ling = WOW. I bet you had that "so much information" brain ache after a while. :)
Comments 17
-[some language] has no single word for [concept], so that means they never experience [concept].
-[some language] has a lot of words for [concept]. (Protip: English probably has just as many if you actually think about it.)
-[some word] means X because it derives etymologically from a word that meant X.
Although, I actually heard that last one ON a linguistics board the other day, so maybe we're just doomed...
Reply
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by point three, though I suspect it's related to the joke we have in the department about "pencil," "vanilla," and "swivel." Sure, "vanilla" might share a root with "vagina," but it's the rare speaker who would conceive of that today...is that the sort of thing you mean?
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To talk about how they are perfect in their own grammar, and about how writing has a fundamentally different grammar than speech, which is why it takes them twelve years (and more) to learn how to write a formal paper.
Yes! I always tried to lay it out for them in ESL ("this is what you write, but this is what you really say"), but I don't think kids in high school get much of that. And then they're so confused when they are told their writing is awful.
You know, when I was an English major in undergrad, I wanted to do anything but teach. And now it's a prime drive in my life. Funny how that works, huh?
I spent my whole undergrad swearing up and down that I would never ever ever be a teacher, and here I am teaching 14-year-olds and liking it.
Reply
...I don't think kids in high school get much of that. And then they're so confused when they are told their writing is awful.
Yeah, this certainly pains me. We don't learn about the levels of language use--that writing grammar is a specialized thing, and spoken grammar is really the basis of a language--and I think that's where a lot of the "I have terrible grammar" or "I don't talk good" sort of sentiments come from. One of the things I picked up from a colleague this semester was to reinforce in class that they already have a *perfect* grammar, that many of the things pointed out in morphology and syntax were things they *knew* and *were awesome* at. I think high school kids could use some of that reinforcement, too, but so much of English at that level seems to be about pointing out mistakes. And it turns them off to the subject.
<333! As much as I gripe about 101, I really do love teaching. It's a very rare disease in this department ( ... )
Reply
We say practicum, but I'm learning from being in a different province and surrounded by people confused by my program that they call it many many different things. It's that thing where I teach teenagers English for free and then get evaluated on it!
Thanks for reading! I always love to read about your linguistics shenanigans.
Reply
I didn't have any chance at learning about linguistics until college, and I first got into it through a History of French Language class. This class was all in french, so I didn't know the english words for the fancy linguistic things. Haha.
I think Linguistics are severely underrated here in Amurrica.
Reply
My awesome Spanish teacher in high school (the first one--I lucked out and had two of 'em) used to tell us when we asked questions, "I don't know, I wasn't invited to the Spanish language party." But honestly, there's a lot in Spanish and English we can explain if we know the history of the languages, and I itch to be able to do so. Of course, I know from teaching 101 in college that my *shiny, shiny* thoughts on language won't necessarily carry through, but...I can't help but want to try.
To some extent, but I don't think it's a terribly well-known field anyways. There's also this interesting and weird thing where English has no regulating body as a language, which makes people a) seriously pedantic and b) seriously pissy about how the language gets used. It's fascinating! but a little scary, heh.
Reply
I think kids could be more excited to write and learn English if they were given a little context.
Reply
Religious studies + Middle English Lit + Ling = WOW. I bet you had that "so much information" brain ache after a while. :)
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