Since it's apparently perfectly all right to tell other people how they should and should not participate in fandom, I thought I'd jump on the bandwagon
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I've been paying a little bit of attention to this because while I'm not in SGA that much anymore, I do enjoy reading her reviews about that fandom and others.
Anyways, I read the initial post equating fandom to a community or work environment (IDK, the metaphor was really long and I lost the train of it) and I was struck with one thought that few people mentioned. How is a community supposed to grow, evolve, and change if we are not allowed to say what we think about things (especially in our own journals) or voice dissenting opinions? It just doesn't make sense to me.
And recs are okay. I read recs/reviews about my fic because I find the reccers are more honest than people leaving feedback. I've had reccers point out missing words that no one else caught. Plus, reading reviews of other fics lets me know if it's my taste or not. I'd rather read a review than 10,000 words only to be let down in the end.
How is a community supposed to grow, evolve, and change if we are not allowed to say what we think about things (especially in our own journals) or voice dissenting opinions?
It's not, because if you assume that people want to grow and evolve, you're being patronizing.
How is a community supposed to grow, evolve, and change if we are not allowed to say what we think about things (especially in our own journals) or voice dissenting opinions?
You know, I never thought that a sense of community meant we all hold hands and sing love songs. I love the spice and tang of disagreement, of commentary and argument and debate.
There's a grain of truth in there, in that offering help to people who haven't asked for it can be problematic. Where I draw the line is the folks who ask for criticism and then cry "Waaaah! You criticized me!!!" If you can't take criticism, just be honest about it instead of ruining it for the people who actually would like critical feedback.
Well, ok, it's that and the chain of thought that runs: ... If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all --> Therefore, if you've said nothing, it's because you had nothing nice to say --> Therefore your silence means you hated my story --> Why do you hate me? You're so MEAN!!! That one is why I'm no longer on any fic lists and am not an official member of any fic communities. I got sick of being told that I couldn't just not comment on crap, but that I was obliged to announce that it smells like roses.
The whole 'fic reviews are meeeeeen and they should be stopped now!' idea is baffling to me. This is real life in the real world. sometimes people will give an honest assessment of your work. It happens everywhere. It happens on the job. It happens to pro writers. It doesn't mean anyone is being overly mean. It means they are giving their honest opinion. It was Grace's honest opinion in her journal. I dare these people to try to stop anyone from voicing their honest opinion in their own journal.
I dare these people to try to stop anyone from voicing their honest opinion in their own journal.
But that's exactly what they're doing and all in the name of her supposedly trying to deliberately squash the fragile flowers who have to come into Grace's space to read what she says about them in her reviews. Never mind that that's not what she's doing at all, stifling one subset for the sake of another is on, apparently.
Silly people that they are for the attempt. Grace will continue, and people will continue to read what she has to say. I know I will. Yes, they can tell all their friends to back away from the fic reviews, but they really cannot control anyone(at least anyone with half a backbone). Maybe they can control what comms she post to but they cannot control what she post on her own journal and what people see and read on their f-list. That much is true.
Yup. And thankfully, Grace isn't the type to crumble under pressure, because I like her reviews too. What's so funny is that I rarely get more than a 3/5 from her and yet, my fragile butterfly self has managed to carry on.
The conflation issues are what's really killing this, I agree. And the worst is, I'm not even sure if there's a single entity to blame for that (meaning I don't think the OP meant to conflate the issues, and I can't even pinpoint where, just that it clearly *is* by now); it's just a fairly large mess of hurt feelings right now. Bah.
I think fandom as a whole tends to conflate crit and reviews; I've seen it happen again and again in when this discussion pops up, mushroom like, and it drives me nuts.
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Cheers. :D
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Anyways, I read the initial post equating fandom to a community or work environment (IDK, the metaphor was really long and I lost the train of it) and I was struck with one thought that few people mentioned. How is a community supposed to grow, evolve, and change if we are not allowed to say what we think about things (especially in our own journals) or voice dissenting opinions? It just doesn't make sense to me.
And recs are okay. I read recs/reviews about my fic because I find the reccers are more honest than people leaving feedback. I've had reccers point out missing words that no one else caught. Plus, reading reviews of other fics lets me know if it's my taste or not. I'd rather read a review than 10,000 words only to be let down in the end.
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It's not, because if you assume that people want to grow and evolve, you're being patronizing.
No, it doesn't make sense to me either.
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Oh look it's American Girl Fandom all over again.
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I've been having this conversation for over 13 years now and I know it's been going on MUCH longer than that.
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You know, I never thought that a sense of community meant we all hold hands and sing love songs. I love the spice and tang of disagreement, of commentary and argument and debate.
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong. :)
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Well, ok, it's that and the chain of thought that runs:
... If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all --> Therefore, if you've said nothing, it's because you had nothing nice to say --> Therefore your silence means you hated my story --> Why do you hate me? You're so MEAN!!!
That one is why I'm no longer on any fic lists and am not an official member of any fic communities. I got sick of being told that I couldn't just not comment on crap, but that I was obliged to announce that it smells like roses.
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But that's exactly what they're doing and all in the name of her supposedly trying to deliberately squash the fragile flowers who have to come into Grace's space to read what she says about them in her reviews. Never mind that that's not what she's doing at all, stifling one subset for the sake of another is on, apparently.
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Yup. And thankfully, Grace isn't the type to crumble under pressure, because I like her reviews too. What's so funny is that I rarely get more than a 3/5 from her and yet, my fragile butterfly self has managed to carry on.
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But yes, lots and lots of #1
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