Land of Opportunism

[stewstewstewdio]

Insurgency, we understand perhaps a little bit more because of the Taliban. And that is that they went about systematically understanding how to disrupt and change a person’s entire processes. - Republican Congressman Peter Sessions

There has arisen a movement to disassemble the United States government one piece at a time. It appears to be a

Comments

[underlankers]

I think that anyone who thinks an unrestrained free market is a good idea needs only to look at the Gilded Age, the existence of large-scale populist/socialist movement, and the ability of the likes of Morgan, Carnegie, Gould, and Rockefeller to have Federal troops break up strikes and then needs to stop and consider if that is how we define freedom and success, what do we call failure? Like a pure Communist system, a pure free market would be an utter disaster bound to culminate in a de facto dictatorship.

[rasilio]

Once again...

"I think that anyone who thinks an unrestrained free market is a good idea needs only to look at the Gilded Age, the existence of large-scale populist/socialist movement, and the ability of the likes of Morgan, Carnegie, Gould, and Rockefeller to have Federal troops break up strikes"

The use of Federal Troops to break a strike is proof that it was NOT an unrestrained Free Market but rather a Mercantlist state.

Further even when they did not use Federal Troops but rather private detectives/mercenaries as with Carnegie's use of the Pinkertons the fact that they were not charged with murder for doing so is proof that it was not a Free Market.

The very fact that corporations and industrialists were allowed to use force with impunity is the very antithesis of a Free Market whose central feature is a single consistent set of rules for EVERYBODY.

So you have made a good argument against Mercantilism but you have not touched on a Free Market system at all.

[underlankers]

"If the Soviet people had just chosen glorious Comrade Trotsky instead of that dull mediocrity of a Georgian, Communism would have been born, the world revolution of the proletariat would have been brought forth, the tides recede, the seas become potable, and all would be well.

You've made a very good argument against Stalinist state capitalism but you have not touched on a Communist system at all."

[kylinrouge]

No no but you see we never truly had a free market, and it's never actually been implemented in its true story, so it's just a hypothesis- not even a theory because even theories have observed consequences, and instead of looking at the whole of human history we need to conform to this hypothesis that can never be implemented.

[sandwichwarrior]

The problem as I see it is that you've conflated several seperate but overlapping philosophies as a single monolithic movement. Not all Libertarians are Tea-Baggers. Objectivists are not really Libertarians though they are often Anarcho-Capitalists.

An Athiest may not see much seperation between Eastern Orthodox Catholics and Sunni Muslims but culturally they are worlds apart.

Furthermore you've failed to adress your opponent's core assertation, namely "Power Corrupts, ergo political power should be disperesed to the greatest extent possible to prevent abuse."

[stewstewstewdio]

Power Corrupts, ergo political power should be disperesed to the greatest extent possible to prevent abuse

Which could also be said about financial power, you socialist

[sandwichwarrior]

This would be the schism between the Objectivists and the more traditional Libertarians.

The issue with socialism/communism as it is most often advocated by the left is that economic wealth/power is to be centrally controlled. Inorder to maintain this control the distributer need to be able to exercise a monopoly on legitimate force.

[gunslnger]

It could be said, but it wouldn't be accurate. Financial power is worthless without political power, and financial power alone does not get you political power if there's none to be had.

Pining for the eighteenth century

[sophia_sadek]

Perhaps one reason that reactionaries hold up a romanticized version of the Founding Padres is that they have traditional values that espouse enslaving people and subjecting them to the lash. There seems to be some evidence in this by the way that they practice a certain level of self-flagellation.

Re: Pining for the eighteenth century

[gunslnger]

This is one of the most idiotic things you've said here.

[kylinrouge]

Germany is a good example of a government crackdown during a recession. Their unemployment actually decreased during their crisis.

Germany has done well because its labor-market institutions encourage employers to cut hours not workers. Instead of laying off 20 percent of workers, say, a firm can instead lower the average hours of its employees by 20 percent. Both accomplish the same goal, but from a social point of view, cutting hours is much better because it shares the pain more equally and keeps workers tied to their jobs.

By tying unemployment into this reduced-hours program, people are able to keep their jobs and not collect as much unemployment as if they were outright fired. I can totally understand this, since everyone saves money here: the business from not paying as much but keeping the labor of the worker, the government from not having to give out as much unemployment, and of course the worker himself for keeping his job.

The German system gives employers many incentives to cut hours instead of workers. The most

[il_mio_gufo]

American corporations are sitting on piles of cash and not investing in America or making an effort towards excellence in their industries.

which, in and of itself, is very Un-American!