Empathy for the Devil, by snake_easing

[snake_easing]

Empathy for the Devil

Or, Shamelessly Manipulating the Audience and You

My gratitude goes to mithen for her suggestions and comments; they led to significant changes and additions.

Stop me if you've heard this one:
You've always wanted to be part of something larger than yourself. Starfleet was a way to do something worthwhile and make your mother

Comments

[bradygirl_12]

Very well done!

I feel that Smallville gave new life to the Lex Luthor character and to the Superman/Lex relationship by showing him in a positive light in the early days, even to the point of friendship with Clark, and then of course the inevitable rift and friends-turned-enemies happened, but it makes the relationship richer. We get elements of that in comics and 'toonverses, but the movieverse Luthor is like a cardboard cut-out, IMO.

SV Lex shows us Clark's empathy: there is always a small part of him that will remember the old Lex, and that colors all their future encounters. Same with Lex, only twisted. ;)

The Joker is as you say, charismatic, even funny at times, but with no empathic qualities for us. Yet the comicsverse and 'toonverse versions work incredibly well with Batman as his nemesis.

[snake_easing]

I fell in love with Smallville's Lex Luthor, and now that's the only Lex that I can see. He's trying to do the right thing! Nobody loves him! (Except Clark.) His daddy is Satan! I do believe that that's the definition of "woobie".

So, yeah, I'm always disappointed when Lex is evil. Like in Adventure Comics #6. What was that about? Lex should be conflicted, dammit! He shouldn't go out of his way to make us hate him without having a very good reason!

I think that toonverse!Joker is slightly more empathetic than comics!Joker, if only because the body count is so much lower. Though there was that thing with Tim Drake... That was pretty bad. And that thing with Harley. Ugh. I take it back, toonverse!Joker is just as bad.

[shiny_n_new]

So, yeah, I'm always disappointed when Lex is evil. Like in Adventure Comics #6.

This! It's not that I can't see him being willing to do that sort of thing, because he totally would, if he thought it was going to be worth it. But what did Lex really gain from that, besides making his niece and son hate his guts? He should be smarter than that. He clearly wants a child that loves him, so what in the world was he doing?

Compare that to Smallville Lex, who was willing to die to save the world from the alien invasion he believed was coming, even if it meant killing his former best friend. And at the end, he knelt down and held Clark so neither of them would be alone. Smallville Lex is so, so much richer for that.

[snake_easing]

But what did Lex really gain from that, besides making his niece and son hate his guts?

It seemed *awfully involved* for no possible pay-off on his part. Why did he even find Conner if he was just going to alienate him farther in a cartoonishly evil way?

I don't think I saw that episode of Smallville, but I sure want to. Which season was it from?

[isilweth]

Ooh, fascinating. Especially the points about backstory and internal contradictions. Thank you for sharing your knowledge in such a clear and thought-provoking way!

[snake_easing]

You're welcome! I'm always glad when someone connects with what I've written!

I got the idea about internal contradictions from Robert McKee's Story. I can't recommend that book strongly enough so I won't try.

[imagined_away]

This was really interesting to read.
I love Brain and Mallah and I kinda of just want him to get his body so they can be happy and in love and together. Maybe they'd stop being criminals. Or maybe they'd only get worse. Probably the latter.
...Frank Miller I'm always a bit conflicted about your writing of Batman.

And I love your captions for the pictures XD they make me laugh a lot

[snake_easing]

I love Brain and Mallah and I kinda of just want him to get his body so they can be happy and in love and together.

You're not the only one, let me say that! I don't even care if they get better or worse, so long as they're happy. That's how much I empathize with them.

And I love your captions for the pictures XD they make me laugh a lot

Thanks! I haven't written very much humor, so I'm glad that this worked for you!

[shiny_glor_chan]

Very interesting post. Learn something new everyday, and this was an enjoyable read. Made me think about the fact so many people hate Jason, but if they read how I write him (or read/hear how obsess about him), they tend to get seduced into loving him too. Guess I'm doing something right. XD

Oh. Just a random thing about the Joker. There was one story I remember reading (a trade) where the Joker was rather sympathetic. The trade was called Batman: Going Sane, and it was pretty much Joker finally 'defeating' Batman. Being the nutcase he is, he didn't check the pulse, just kicked the body, but for the whole time he thought Batman was dead, he lived his life. He was even going to get married. ...until Batman reemerged, alive and well. It was an interesting take on Joker's character that I'm sure that will never be seen from again, but it made me hate Batman a little more. >>;;

[snake_easing]

If you empathize with Jay, you'll naturally present things from his pov, and people will respond. If they are responding, then yeah, you're doing it right.

I think I did see a few scans from that Going Sane story. I notice that their way of making him sympathetic was to take away everything that makes him the Joker. I'll spare you the rant about heteronormativity being used as the epitome of goodness, which was made explicit in a later story where J'onn went into the Joker's mind and found the Joker's husband-self still buried in there.

Do you hate Batman in general? I ask out of interest, as I cast him as the villain in my series and was actually quite eager to do so. I like him okay in general, I guess, but not so much that I couldn't make him the villain.

[mithen]

OMG, Brain in the crib with the little dangly things... +chokes+ Poor Mallah/Brain, I hope they find a way back to comics continuity soon

[snake_easing]

OMG, Brain in the crib with the little dangly things... +chokes+

I could forgive Morrison (and the artist) everything, just for that.

I really don't get DC's death obsession. Who could look at this little bit of diversity and think that the DC universe would be richer if these two were removed?

Somehow murder isn't generally considered as something that puts a character "beyond the pale" as much

I've been thinking about that myself. I think it has to do with audience-identification with certain actions. I can conceive of a situation where I'd have to kill someone, for self-defense or whatever, and I can even conceive of a situation where it'd have to be done in cold blood. Torture is a further stretch, but the U.S. military managed to make that moral leap...

But, obviously, I'm never going to rape or molest someone. So I'm never going to identify with Dr. Light or gritty!Toyman. Yeah, sorry. Not happening.

That's really interesting, what you say about Harley. I might have to look that up.