(Untitled)

[kickthehobbit]

A post is made to metaquotes about a father with ill-behaved kids being told off. Someone mentions posting it to childfree.

All Hell breaks loose.

Enter accusations that anyone who doesn't want children is a childhater, and a bonus appearance by skepticultist. When pester quietly points out that it's also bad form to talk to the kids, she's shot down and told that it's perfectly

Comments

[ex_thexphial147]

As someone who works with young children who have serious problems regulating their own behavior, I can attest to the fact that it is VERY tempting to correct another person's child, but it's still a bad idea because you could easily be undermining an established behavior plan, like ignoring annoying but not dangerous behavior to try to eliminate it. Just because the parent is not responding doesn't mean they are a bad parent or not paying attention.

[ex_thexphial147]

Sometimes that isn't an option. If you have to go to the store, you have to go to the store. Running to take the child out every time he throws a fit is reinforcing that throwing a fit gets him what he wants, i.e. attention and control over the situation. Yes, it's annoying. Yes, you can get huffy about it, but it's still important that the child learn how to control himself before he gets to big to actually correct at all.

[ex_thexphial147]

too big*

[happiestsadist]

My parents generally kept me under control, so other adults didn't have to, but it was the same for me. And it wasn't that long ago for me!

I agree on the awesome, though.

[petitfour]

I don't think so, you'd be surprised how much she's updated with everything from planning baby showers for unwed mothers to how to address envelopes to same sex couples.

[merlyn4401]

I know I would much, MUCH prefer if someone aproached me rather than my kids. Good or bad. I cannot COUNT the number of times adults have offered candy or snacks to my kids RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME without asking me first. And then I look like the bad guy for saying no. Um, sorry, tangent.

LIke I said, talk to me. I'll either discipline or remove my child if I think it is warranted.

The only times I have said something to kids I don't know at all is if they are in the process of hurting one of my kids, or if I have no idea who/where their parents are.

[merlyn4401]

Unfortunately, most people cannot be counted on to act rationally anymore. I have taught my kids to both ignore strangers, and if they are bothering them, to yell "leave me alone" and run back to me. Obnoxious? Absoluetly, But it's a safety measure they need. All it takes is one sweet talker speaking about candy or a puppy to lure a kid away.

So I cannot always trust who is speaking to my child, both in terms of motive, and what exactly they are going ot say. "Please be quiet" is one thing. "Shut up you little brat before I drop kick you across the store" is quite another.

[tomecatti]

Miss Manners is a bitch. She's got no place telling me how to treat anyone. Seriously, children are just little, underdeveloped people. If any person is being rude to the point of aggravating me, i should be able to tell them off. Their age shouldn't matter, so long as the context is right. It was in a sports bar, if you head over to the contextual post, and that's where a lot of adults go to have their own kind of noise. Kids shouldn't be loud there, and shoudl be told so. Now, if it had been a park, it would've been totally wrong, and a mall or other family setting would have been iffy. Furthermore, if kids are just left alone by those other than their parents, they'll never develop an understanding of what's socially acceptable. I don't think the pester bit is really stupid, and in fact, both sides are behaving reasonably intelligently so far.

Miss Manners is not as bad as skepticultist in any case. God, what an idiot bitch.

[merlyn4401]

Manners and ettiquette are EAXCTLY the arts of how to treat people.

And pointing out other people's rudeness (and thereby being rude and offensive yourself) is one of the biggest ettiquette violations out there.

[tomecatti]

--Okay, good point. But if Miss Manners says that telling people that they're rude is rude, then that's some serious hypocrisy.

I really don't understand how pointing out other people's rudeness is rude. It's socially responsible. If people don't know they're being rude, they will continue to be rude, and make dozens of people silently angry.

[merlyn4401]

Yeah, but it's not anyone's job to be the ettiquette police in public.

Would you confront someone who was slurping their soup? Using the wrong fork? Failed to mail you a thank you note? Belched in front of you? How would you feel if someone confronted YOU about any of those things?

Ettiquette is about both being gracious, and making the people around you feel comfortable and at ease. Correcting adults does not fall into that category. Correcting children only does so if they are yours, or you are in charge of them.

[rocza]

*headdesk*
The thing that gets me is the whole "there are too many babies just adopt!!!!"

Right. You know, the last time I looked, you didn't have to drop down $20,000+ to have a biological child (unless we're talking IVF, which is another ballgame entirely). Kids cost an insane amount of money as is, and most folks just don't have the upfront cash to go "on top of having to provide for this kid through at least 18, probably 22, maybe even longer, I'm going to massively invest right up front!"

I have friends going through their second adoption right now - overseas, so that they can offer a home to another unwanted girl - and it's just not the sunshine and roses that childfree "just adopt don't breed" asshats want it to be.

Augh. /rant

[claudiag]

... trying to see where this relates to the post, and failing.

[kickthehobbit]

One of the commenters said they were childfree because they felt the world was too overpopulated/it would be better if more people were adopting.

[claudiag]

Ah yeah. Had to hunt for it.