A whole lot of isms, but mostly heterosexism.

[strange_tomato]

Given that this Sunday, May 17, is the International Day Against Homophobia, it's interesting that I was recently called out for being heterosexist. To my face, by a lesbian. I was pretty embarrassed. (Not that it would be any better to have this pointed out in another way, but I felt pretty careless.)

Comments

[inkspottedtea]

While I agree with everything you've said - it's something that western culture seems to do by default; be heterosexist.

Is that girl srs? Even if there /were/ elderly homosexuals in that Senior Center ... do you think they are "out", or talk about being gay with their peers? It's one thing to jump on a cause like that, it's a complete 'nother to be a dick about something that is WORTHLESS. If you had put homosexual couples on that poster, can you imagine the shit storm those old people would've caused?

My god. What a stupid thing to be ~righteous~ about. I haaaaaate the gay community sometimes. It's why I never go to pride parades. Give me a Milk-esque riot anyday, sparkles and ~why can't we all get along~? So not my scene.

[ikichi]

I hear what you're saying about any of elders there being closeted if they *were* gay, but consider this: One of the things that irks me in the community is the invisibility of older LGBTs. Everything we have today, is because of their sacrifices, and every time I hear someone bitch about someone older than 30 being in the club/whatever I want to smack their ungrateful selves.

Personally, I wonder why the clipart "needs" to be couples in the first place- as if people have no value if they're not in a relationship. (I'm not blaming Strange, it's hard to find things depicting elders as people). And it's worth exploring why when we see a male and female in an activity together we assume they're a couple instead of one of the dozens of other relationships they could be.

[inkspottedtea]

I agree - I'm just saying that what a thing to pick a bitch-fit with your friend about. You aren't going to change the clipart, you aren't going to change the majority of /elderly/, conservative thinking - so why shoot the messenger? That is what I hate about gay youth today. As if they have nothing better to do that baw about the irrelevant. Which, frankly, if they have to make up lame crap to be upset about, they should BE SO LUCKY. That no one is trying to demean them or hurt them, so they can whine about being vegetarian and why microsoft doesn't depict hip, older people in their clipart - just wow. Shut up and be thankful, jesus christ.

tl;dr learn to pick your battles, young people. This isn't one of them~

[strange_tomato]

Actually, the woman who pointed this out to me was definitely not a youth. In fact, she's pretty close to being a senior herself, and is in a commited relationship. So she was literally speaking out about her own reality not being represented.

As for your overall statement here, I don't really agree. Yes, I think things can be taken too far and maybe the issues that get focused on aren't always the most important ones, but I see nothing wrong with people speaking out against things they object to (even excessively). That's how things change.

[snootcb]

Whew. I think maybe calling you "heterosexist" is a bit of an overreaction in this situation, but if I was constantly discriminated against at the level that gay/bi/trans people are an a daily basis, even if it isn't on purpose, I'd probably be way more sensitive to this kind of thing. I tend to just not think about it- which means that I generally don't make a big deal over homosexuality, whether positively or negatively, and I think that obsessing over it (whether positively or negatively) can be more often be harmful than helpful. But it DOES need attention, if only to get to the point where we don't even pay attention to it any more. Does that make any sense? We just have to find that happy medium where a person's sexuality is no big deal, but people of all sexualities are fairly and commonly represented. But, ultimately, I'm more upset that there were so few images of happy, healthy elderly people (of all genders, orientations, races, etc) for your use. It does seem like most depictions of old folks are somewhat morbid or

[cameoflage]

Mm. I do agree that having unisex civil unions with the legal rights of marriage and then giving the term 'marriage' over to churches would solve the problem... but the issue with that is that people would still say 'marriage' most of the time in casual discourse (since already-ingrained culture is damn near impossible to force changes upon), which would probably undermine that attempt at separation.

[naughtydolphin]

It's a tricky topic to discuss without someone being offended, but most delicate topics are. Are there disabled people, fat people, people of different ethnicity also pointing out how restrictive the view is of the poster? Is it just elderly, slim, healthy white people that are allowed here? Is that what the poster is advertising? I highly doubt it

[simgarooop]

Oh goodie, I hope I can express my opinion without making things confusing. It is hard for me to make an argument regarding this topic in particular, more so if I have to do it in English

More tl:dr

[simgarooop]

Now, as for Sim Stories, I've really enjoyed the way you've developed characters like Beau and Frances. You know why? Because they are BEAU and FRANCES and not just GAY 1 and GAY 2. Their sexual orientation is just another of the many different characteristics that make them unique, not the only one. It'd be pretty boring if you only focused on that side of them. It's just like how you handle Ripp's horny side. Sure, he thinks with his "woo-hoo" at times, but he's also concerned about his insecurity issues, his relationship with his brothers, etc., etc., so there's more to him as a character than just being a walking libido :P

[tanathir]

I have to agree with you there; I work with special needs people, and I see a huge lack of them being portrayed in images. Still, I don't get hugely upset. The way to change things is to be an example yourself and share with people you know so they might change the way they think, hopefully for the better. I can really only influence my small sphere of the world.

What annoys me more is when disabled people are so rarely depicted in the media, it's either 1. they're in a wheelchair or 2. they're complete idiots. Not a good sampling of actual disabled people. The girl I work with - you wouldn't really be able to tell she has a disability until you interacted with her a bit, or she said something like, "I live in a group home" or "this is my (developmental therapy) tech."

Disabled does not equal wheelchair or complete retard. Same applies for sexuality: majority of a population is heterosexual does not equal heterosexism. Like it's been discussed already, people can find something offensive in just about anything.

[pixelcurious]

I don't have much to add -- most of what I would say would merely be echoing other, more articulate comments above. But I do want to say I don't think your poster, as you describe is, is heterosexist as much as perhaps heterocentric. Photographs of opposite-sex couples do not, inherently, say "This is normal and anything else is not normal."

The lack of available clip art depicting elderly same-sex couples does reflect a heterosexist bias in society, but your poster, taken as an individual thing, isn't heterosexist. At least not in my opinion.

[pixelcurious]

Just as an aside... I can imagine the same criticism being leveled at my icon, for instance. To someone who doesn't know that Pixel and Bean are siblings, it looks like an opposite-sex couple about to kiss. Should I change my icon to avoid being targeted as heterosexist? :P

[edge_ofthe_sea]

This. I think there's some times a fine line between heterosexism and being heterocentric, but what you described falls under being heterocentric for me.

It's amazing how easy it is to be heterosexist. Or heterocentric. Even if you're a pansexual female in a relationship with a lesbian. Heck, I spent a whole 20-some years not even knowing that those terms existed and at least one or two of those I was actually "out" to myself. Of course, those things still bothered me...I just didn't have words to articulate it.

I dunno. I just get happy that people actually know the words and actually care about not making others feel excluded/The Other/etc.