Too good to not be posted...
This was in response to a comment in my last post. The situation (which wasn't really a situation, but a misunderstanding of a multispecific nature) has since been resolved, but this is just good stuff.
From thegirliscrazy with inserts by me ( Read more... )
From thegirliscrazy with inserts by me ( Read more... )
Yeah, this argument still pisses me off. You might be generalizing cracker to mean 'all white people who are racist fucktards', but it still reads as 'all white people'. I'm not sure that any progress will be made, one way or another, while one asks for people to not see others as a race in one sentence while lumping everyone of one skin color together in the next.
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1. I don't and I never have, and you know that. It's been addressed.
What I don't get is supporting that view. I don't see why it needs to be there.
It's not supporting the view as much as putting it on the back burner. I don't care that black people go off on white people because I completely understand why they do it. I don't know if there's anyway to describe it so maybe it's one of those things you have to experience?
Some idiot was yelling at my mom because it was taking her a while to cross the street and not only called her the n-word, but also b*tch and old and so many terrible things, and you could just see the hatred in his eyes. There's a difference between the hatred present in his eyes, and the pain present in the eyes of black people trying to hold onto any ground that they can when they feel hopeless ( ... )
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I'd recommend that you not read into my intent or my reaction any more than what I said . . . I just don't understand how racism can be fought by using racist remarks, and I've still not seen a proper reply.
You've seen plenty of proper replies. You are, however, not putting much effort into understanding them. I'm gonna call out white privilege when I see it, so, y'know, you can recommend all you want. I'm not sure how much good it will do.
You say that it's not my place to even ask the question...so can white people contribute nothing to a talk about racism?
Did you miss the part where I repeatedly said I was white? If so, here it is again:
croupier is white
Now that that's settled, I call straw man on yr asking me if "white people [can contribute] nothing to a talk about racism."
( ... )
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I don't understand how lumping a group of people together by the color of their skin is helpful to solving racism.
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I've never asked what harm it causes. I ask what _good_ it does. And I still don't really care about the terminology; I care about the prejudice behind it. To me, saying 'all white people' and 'all crackers' is essentially congruent. I don't really care.
I understand where that discrimination and hatred comes from. I just don't know what good it does anyone.
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That's the word I was trying to think of! And yes, this is also getting added to the post.
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I call straw man on yr personal attack, 'cuz geez Louise, man, like that's not played the fuck out. And the only reason "[yr] opinion being said at all is . . . oppressive" is because yr opinion just happens to draw discussion away from the needs of people of color and towards yr own desires. It's not who you are; it's what yr doing with it.
I said: What you're really trying to do is shift the focus of a discussion on racism to a discussion of you and yr hurt white feelings. Which, again, IS A THOUSAND FUCKING TIMES MORE RACIST than a Black person calling me "cracker."
You said: I'd again ask that you don't assign me motives that don't exist.
I didn't do that. I did point out the problems with yr behavior. The fact that you are not even conscious of how your reaction to stickykeys633's post reflects white privilege leads me to believe that you do not do much active listening in discussions about ( ... )
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I call straw man on yr personal attack, 'cuz geez Louise, man, like that's not played the fuck out. And the only reason "[yr] opinion being said at all is . . . oppressive" is because yr opinion just happens to draw discussion away from the needs of people of color and towards yr own desires. It's not who you are; it's what yr doing with it.
See, I don't get this. Is this somehow taking away from some huge debate on racism that's being viewed by the general public across the internets? Am I acting like some giant heckler or something? This is me having a public conversation with a couple of other people. There's room for this talk, and for talk about white people not using the n-word, and for derogatory racial slurs in general, and any number of talks. Were you going to be talking to someone else if not for my saying something in SK's LJ?
I didn't do that. I did point out the problems with ( ... )
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I'm bothered by yr bad punctuation and lack of knowledge of riot grrrl slang, but that's pretty fuckin' nitpicky.
Am I acting like some giant heckler or something?
YES.
I said: The fact that you are not even conscious of how your reaction to stickykeys633's post reflects white privilege leads me to believe that you do not do much active listening in discussions about racism.
You said: Believe what you like; I can't really change that, other than to say that you're not correct.
Saying it =/= making it true.
I care more about the attitude that all white people are the same.
1. All white people benefit from white privilege.
2. Whining about how "yr not like them" is racist because it DRAWS THE FOCUS away from a DISCUSSION ABOUT RACISM.
3. It demonstrates that you "care more about the attitude that all white people are the same" than you do about the attitude that ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE SAME, which is the REAL PROBLEM here. But you don't care about that:
I care that ( ... )
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Why can't I have this opinion and also have others?
I'm sorry about the riot grrl thing. That's not something I was aware of. It still bugs me, but that's more my grammar nazi part than anything to do with you.
In any case, it's clear that one way or another, nothing productive is happening as I'm making you angrier and you're not answering my question, so I'll bow out. Thanks for the discussion. Sorry I piss you off so fervently.
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/eyeroll
just because I care about this does not necessarily preclude I don't care about anything else.
I kinda get that impression, though, 'cause that's ALL YOU FUCKING TALK ABOUT.
Nor does my not saying something explicit about white privilege in every sentence I make make it true that I don't understand the concept.
1. This is a discussion about white privilege.
2. It logically follows that acknowledging yr own white privilege might have a part in that discussion.
3. Yr reluctance to let go of white privilege in this forum shows that you don't understand the concept as applied to you.
Why is it that if I dislike this notion, I must absolutely, no matter what, be opposed to everything else and/or be ignorant of it? Why does this post need to be the most helpful thing I've ever done to stop racism?
I love how you totally got that out of "The fact that you are not even conscious of how your reaction to stickykeys633's post reflects white privilege leads me to believe ( ... )
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1. Honestly, I'm far more bugged by the word 'yr' than 'cracker'.
I'm bothered by yr bad punctuation and lack of knowledge of riot grrrl slang, but that's pretty fuckin' nitpicky.
Yeah, I was going to mention that comment, that was petty and completely unnecessary. Y'all know my typing goes south when I'm all heated up, but even I got the riot grrrl thing.
2. Believe what you like; I can't really change that, other than to say that you're not correct.Other than to say it's your opinion that she's not correct. Because I happen to think that she is, completely. Definitely more abrasive than I (♥), but filled with scads of truth ( ... )
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So, you, me, gay wedding, Massachusetts?
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