Too good to not be posted...
This was in response to a comment in my last post. The situation (which wasn't really a situation, but a misunderstanding of a multispecific nature) has since been resolved, but this is just good stuff.
From thegirliscrazy with inserts by me:
I just said I haven't figured out why white people can't get this but...let me try anyway. Sit down. Read.
I SAID sit the fuck down! Thank you.
First we must address what is most problematic, which is this...this way that white people treat blacks as if we're some house committee on what all black people will and will not accept. We're not some random and debatable antiquated Senate committe headed by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. What one person may let you slide for, an entire neighborhood might beat you down. Stop asking or expecting one person to grant you permission for something that someone else may not give you b/c we are not all the fucking same! A lot of this isn't even about what you can and can't say around or to us. It's about having some fucking respect and thinking of as people, not 'black people.' Which is a difference crackers will probably never learn or even ponder and I'm tired of even being irritated, let alone thinking you might actually, oh, I don't know, figure it out one day and treat us like normal human beings instead of museum exhibits or your one black friend or eggshells or all of the above.
SK: I'd also like to interject the difference between group speak, and the above. TGiC is right when she says "Stop asking or expecting one person to grant you permission for something that someone else may not give you b/c we are not all the fucking same!". Ultimately it becomes an issue of one on one interaction.
However, I want to stress that when I say, "Don't call black people niggers, whitefolk", that I AM speaking for ALL black people, and that I'm still saying the exact same thing as Gayla.
Because it's not just about respect for people then as much as it is the culture that we've created in this country. TGiC is saying, "Don't think that if Raheem says it's okay that I will agree, because Raheem don't know me." I'm saying, "Raheem and TGiC both fall under the "nigger" umbrella. As a whole you should you have enough respect for them to not want to call them a racial slur.
The desire for white's to even say the word is beyond me. I think it's simply a matter of forbidden fruit though getting them to admit that is darn near impossible.
Second: My people came over here forcibly, through slavery, and then color distinctions were made and some white people made up the word nigger because apparently 'those people that we just dragged off the boat to clean our house and wash our clothes and pick our food and raise our kids...' were too many syllables for their lazy mouths to form. I'm not going to argue about the origins of the word, whether it's a poor pronunciation of 'negro' or that old pick-a-nigger urban legend that's been floating around for a while, but you know they weren't trying to think of terms of endearment. It's like when you call a Mexican a beaner or a wetback or...whatever the derogatory words for Jews or Romanians or Asians are. Don't be asking a motherfucker why all the time. You know it's bad! You know it doesn't mean anything good! It never has meant anything good coming from a white person so stop trying to act like you don't damn know!
SK: "Don't be asking a motherfucker why all the time. You know it's bad! You know it doesn't mean anything good! It never has meant anything good coming from a white person so stop trying to act like you don't damn know!"
WORD!
Somewhere along the line, some black people were like, "Man, fuck this shit, they insist on calling us nigger, then fine. We'll be a nigger. But now we're going to redefine what a nigger really is." So now, some use it as a term of endearment, and some use it as a synonym for jackass or fool, but don't get it twisted, they're not calling anyone out for being black. It really is just a word. To us. Some black people don't like the word, don't ever want to hear it again, couldn't give a damn about spinning negatives into positives. Where it came from has tainted the word for them forever. And that is understandable, and they have that choice.
White people? Do not have that choice. See, it's like a bank robber applying for a teller position at the bank. You don't hire a known thief as a bank teller. They have to prove, through years of not stealing (or not getting caught stealing), that they are trustworthy. White people haven't been known to be trustworthy. Ever. Not just regarding the n-word but regarding a lot of things. Prove you can act right and then we can talk. White people as a whole have not been proven to be trustworthy over the years. They haven't even proven to be trustworthy in the past month. So even if 'we' could give them the right to say nigger, how do I know they aren't secretly thinking all the racist connotations that normally go along with that word? I know, I can't prove they're racist. But I can't prove they're not either. So we're all better off if white people don't try to go there, you see? No, of course you don't see. But I figured I'd ask anyway.
Damn, I think I'm actually through.
SK: So what's the answer? I think it's simply an issue of accepting that you have a problem. That the issue is not black people, it's not the word nigger, but it's the insistence that white people must be in control of everything all the time. Some struggle everyday to make right the wrongs of their ancestors, but in doing so they end up forsaking the power they have to change things.
I always see that if you have white privilege, use it to its fullest extent, but use it to empower, to change the game, to open eyes. Stop trying to change the past and start molding the future. It's not your job to get over slavery, it's your jobs to make sure it never happens again, and demanding that we pave the path for you to overrun is not a part of that position!
Of course all of this is said with great deals of emotion, but read it and let me know what you think. You know I'm always open to dialogue.
Additional hottness from croupier
I'm not sure that any progress will be made until all us white people acknowledge that the power dynamic is shifted in our favor. Black people calling us "crackers" will be as hurtful as white people calling Black people "n-----s" when:
- Black people make the same amount of money as white people
- the United States has had 43 Black presidents in a row
- the United States Congress is comprised entirely of Black people
- Black people control all major media outlets
- the schools where white people go are underfunded
- Black people lynching white people while calling them "crackers" becomes a phenomenon
- Someone named Lakeisha Jane Howard can put "Lakeisha Jane Howard" instead of "L. Jane Howard" on her resume and know that, if she doesn't get a call back, it's not because someone in HR glanced at her name and moved on to the next applicant
ETC.
And this is what we mean by White People Can't dictate the racism discussion:
I think our primary difference is in the understanding of the word "racism." You probably suscribe to the dictionary meaning, which I don't need to repeat here, 'cause it's so fucking common. I don't subscribe to that definition, and here's why. (I'mma go slow on this next bit as much for my benefit as for yours.) If you feel like you need clarification on any of this, [info]debunkingwhite is a great place to start.
1. In order for racism to be over, white folks such as ourselves must accept that we do not get to define the terms of discussion as far as racism is concerned. People of color know what is wrong and people of color get to develop the language to fix it. This is because discussion of racism will necessarily entail discussion of white domination of people of color. White people insisting on defining the language is part of that domination.
2. The dictionary definition of racism has never been and will never be enough for adequate discussions of racism. White people insisting on using the dictionary definition of racism is problematic (see the last two sentences of point 1). Many people of color and their allies have settled upon the definition of "racism" as "prejudice + power"--see [info]debunkingwhite if you need to. Racism is institutionalized. It is systemic. It is prejudice + power.
3. Because white people do not get to define the terms of the discussion, the definition of "racism" as "prejudice + power" is one we must proceed under in order to get anything done. If we truly want to be allies, we will follow the lead of people of color. Abandoning our desire for domination at the door is a significant step in becoming a white ally of people of color. This means that we give up some of our privilege in order that we may discuss others getting rights.
4. Because we must proceed under this definition of racism in order to get any decent discussion done, we must view racism as prejudice plus power. "Cracker" has prejudice behind it, but Black people do not have the power in Western society.
5. Therefore, THE TERM CRACKER ISN'T RACIST. If you want to go cry about it being racist under the dictionary definition, or whine about the dictionary definition being adequate to define your experience, I would direct you to [info]debunkingwhite for further discussion.
From thegirliscrazy with inserts by me:
I just said I haven't figured out why white people can't get this but...let me try anyway. Sit down. Read.
I SAID sit the fuck down! Thank you.
First we must address what is most problematic, which is this...this way that white people treat blacks as if we're some house committee on what all black people will and will not accept. We're not some random and debatable antiquated Senate committe headed by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. What one person may let you slide for, an entire neighborhood might beat you down. Stop asking or expecting one person to grant you permission for something that someone else may not give you b/c we are not all the fucking same! A lot of this isn't even about what you can and can't say around or to us. It's about having some fucking respect and thinking of as people, not 'black people.' Which is a difference crackers will probably never learn or even ponder and I'm tired of even being irritated, let alone thinking you might actually, oh, I don't know, figure it out one day and treat us like normal human beings instead of museum exhibits or your one black friend or eggshells or all of the above.
SK: I'd also like to interject the difference between group speak, and the above. TGiC is right when she says "Stop asking or expecting one person to grant you permission for something that someone else may not give you b/c we are not all the fucking same!". Ultimately it becomes an issue of one on one interaction.
However, I want to stress that when I say, "Don't call black people niggers, whitefolk", that I AM speaking for ALL black people, and that I'm still saying the exact same thing as Gayla.
Because it's not just about respect for people then as much as it is the culture that we've created in this country. TGiC is saying, "Don't think that if Raheem says it's okay that I will agree, because Raheem don't know me." I'm saying, "Raheem and TGiC both fall under the "nigger" umbrella. As a whole you should you have enough respect for them to not want to call them a racial slur.
The desire for white's to even say the word is beyond me. I think it's simply a matter of forbidden fruit though getting them to admit that is darn near impossible.
Second: My people came over here forcibly, through slavery, and then color distinctions were made and some white people made up the word nigger because apparently 'those people that we just dragged off the boat to clean our house and wash our clothes and pick our food and raise our kids...' were too many syllables for their lazy mouths to form. I'm not going to argue about the origins of the word, whether it's a poor pronunciation of 'negro' or that old pick-a-nigger urban legend that's been floating around for a while, but you know they weren't trying to think of terms of endearment. It's like when you call a Mexican a beaner or a wetback or...whatever the derogatory words for Jews or Romanians or Asians are. Don't be asking a motherfucker why all the time. You know it's bad! You know it doesn't mean anything good! It never has meant anything good coming from a white person so stop trying to act like you don't damn know!
SK: "Don't be asking a motherfucker why all the time. You know it's bad! You know it doesn't mean anything good! It never has meant anything good coming from a white person so stop trying to act like you don't damn know!"
WORD!
Somewhere along the line, some black people were like, "Man, fuck this shit, they insist on calling us nigger, then fine. We'll be a nigger. But now we're going to redefine what a nigger really is." So now, some use it as a term of endearment, and some use it as a synonym for jackass or fool, but don't get it twisted, they're not calling anyone out for being black. It really is just a word. To us. Some black people don't like the word, don't ever want to hear it again, couldn't give a damn about spinning negatives into positives. Where it came from has tainted the word for them forever. And that is understandable, and they have that choice.
White people? Do not have that choice. See, it's like a bank robber applying for a teller position at the bank. You don't hire a known thief as a bank teller. They have to prove, through years of not stealing (or not getting caught stealing), that they are trustworthy. White people haven't been known to be trustworthy. Ever. Not just regarding the n-word but regarding a lot of things. Prove you can act right and then we can talk. White people as a whole have not been proven to be trustworthy over the years. They haven't even proven to be trustworthy in the past month. So even if 'we' could give them the right to say nigger, how do I know they aren't secretly thinking all the racist connotations that normally go along with that word? I know, I can't prove they're racist. But I can't prove they're not either. So we're all better off if white people don't try to go there, you see? No, of course you don't see. But I figured I'd ask anyway.
Damn, I think I'm actually through.
SK: So what's the answer? I think it's simply an issue of accepting that you have a problem. That the issue is not black people, it's not the word nigger, but it's the insistence that white people must be in control of everything all the time. Some struggle everyday to make right the wrongs of their ancestors, but in doing so they end up forsaking the power they have to change things.
I always see that if you have white privilege, use it to its fullest extent, but use it to empower, to change the game, to open eyes. Stop trying to change the past and start molding the future. It's not your job to get over slavery, it's your jobs to make sure it never happens again, and demanding that we pave the path for you to overrun is not a part of that position!
Of course all of this is said with great deals of emotion, but read it and let me know what you think. You know I'm always open to dialogue.
Additional hottness from croupier
I'm not sure that any progress will be made until all us white people acknowledge that the power dynamic is shifted in our favor. Black people calling us "crackers" will be as hurtful as white people calling Black people "n-----s" when:
- Black people make the same amount of money as white people
- the United States has had 43 Black presidents in a row
- the United States Congress is comprised entirely of Black people
- Black people control all major media outlets
- the schools where white people go are underfunded
- Black people lynching white people while calling them "crackers" becomes a phenomenon
- Someone named Lakeisha Jane Howard can put "Lakeisha Jane Howard" instead of "L. Jane Howard" on her resume and know that, if she doesn't get a call back, it's not because someone in HR glanced at her name and moved on to the next applicant
ETC.
And this is what we mean by White People Can't dictate the racism discussion:
I think our primary difference is in the understanding of the word "racism." You probably suscribe to the dictionary meaning, which I don't need to repeat here, 'cause it's so fucking common. I don't subscribe to that definition, and here's why. (I'mma go slow on this next bit as much for my benefit as for yours.) If you feel like you need clarification on any of this, [info]debunkingwhite is a great place to start.
1. In order for racism to be over, white folks such as ourselves must accept that we do not get to define the terms of discussion as far as racism is concerned. People of color know what is wrong and people of color get to develop the language to fix it. This is because discussion of racism will necessarily entail discussion of white domination of people of color. White people insisting on defining the language is part of that domination.
2. The dictionary definition of racism has never been and will never be enough for adequate discussions of racism. White people insisting on using the dictionary definition of racism is problematic (see the last two sentences of point 1). Many people of color and their allies have settled upon the definition of "racism" as "prejudice + power"--see [info]debunkingwhite if you need to. Racism is institutionalized. It is systemic. It is prejudice + power.
3. Because white people do not get to define the terms of the discussion, the definition of "racism" as "prejudice + power" is one we must proceed under in order to get anything done. If we truly want to be allies, we will follow the lead of people of color. Abandoning our desire for domination at the door is a significant step in becoming a white ally of people of color. This means that we give up some of our privilege in order that we may discuss others getting rights.
4. Because we must proceed under this definition of racism in order to get any decent discussion done, we must view racism as prejudice plus power. "Cracker" has prejudice behind it, but Black people do not have the power in Western society.
5. Therefore, THE TERM CRACKER ISN'T RACIST. If you want to go cry about it being racist under the dictionary definition, or whine about the dictionary definition being adequate to define your experience, I would direct you to [info]debunkingwhite for further discussion.