Keller - gone, but not dead.

[starwatcher307]

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Someone on my flist (in a locked post, so I won't mention her name) asked if she was being overly critical of a story where the author killed off Keller so that John and Rodney got together. Several of us thought not, because the story suggests that Jennifer's death was slow (and the author gloats that she hopes it was), and specifically lets

Comments

[wneleh]

First off - I don't know whether this is related at all or not, but what about TS fics in which Naomi is hit by a bus in order to send a grieving Blair into Jim's arms?

As for how to un-Rodney Jennifer - well, Jennifer really reminds me of several friends who have been into saving men; some have specialized in particularly brilliant, abrasive men, some with much poorer social skills than Rodney. So I think what will do it is for Jennifer to meet someone even more screwed up. Heh, maybe Kavanaugh! (I should add that I have liked and respected these women in general.)

[starwatcher307]

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I should add that I have liked and respected these women in general.

Me, too -- although TPTB didn't, in general, support them as strong women. I just prefer to concentrate on some of the other characters.

what about TS fics in which Naomi is hit by a bus in order to send a grieving Blair into Jim's arms?

I'm not objecting to death per se; it can be a valid plot point. I even suggested to the author that Jennifer could have been culled, or the first victim of a horrendous disease (that Carson later manages to find a cure for). She could even be hit by a bus while shopping on Earth -- or trampled by a runaway wagon-team on one of the Pegasus planets.

What bothers me is the callousness of murder to remove an 'irritation', and turning another character into the kind of person that sees that as a reasonable solution to getting Rodney and John together.

So I think what will do it is for Jennifer to meet someone even more screwed up. Heh, maybe Kavanaugh!I read a meta, somewhere, that suggested Kavanaugh's personality is

[miriam_heddy]

What bothers me is the callousness of murder to remove an 'irritation', and turning another character into the kind of person that sees that as a reasonable solution to getting Rodney and John together.

While I agree with you on the problematic nature of female character killing (both in the murdering sense and in the sense of character assassination), your argument here seems slightly problematic to me as well, in that, in the process of trying to seem reasonable and flexible, you seem to be legitimizing killing the female character as a means of removing her from being in the way of the OTP, and then arguing that it's only really problematic to kill her if, in doing so, it distorts another male character.

Thus again, a female character becomes worth less than a male. This seems sort of parallel to the common way of looking at rape (it's not what it did to the woman, but what it did to the men around her

[wneleh]

arguing that it's only really problematic to kill her if, in doing so, it distorts another male character.

Hmmm. So... if Teyla had killed Keller in the story, it's possible starwatcher307's reaction wouldn't have been as strong, you think? Or as problematic for you?

But it didn't make the killing of Keller any worse--at least not to my mind.

What if she'd blown up the entire base, leaving McKay and Sheppard on an atmosphered moon somewhere, with only each other for solace? I.e., is it the body count, or the get!Keller, or the glee at killing her, or killing a woman in particular, that bothers you?

[briarwood]

I don't watch SGA any longer, but what woman in her right mind would go for McKay?

That aside, yes, I agree. It's the one thing I think Grey's Anatomy got right: when Addison (the wife who had to be ejected for the sake of the OTP) showed up she wasn't just likeable, she was awesome. And the OTP still ended up together. It took a while, but they did.

If a show with writing as crappy as Greys can do it, why can't we?

[starwatcher307]

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I don't watch SGA any longer, but what woman in her right mind would go for McKay?

LOL, there is that! But she seems to be focusing on the good points, and assuming she can 'train' him out of the aspects she doesn't like. As Helen pointed out, above, some women are into saving men; some have specialized in particularly brilliant, abrasive men, some with much poorer social skills than Rodney. There does seem to be some of that going on (not that TPTB have been at all consistent in writing Keller, or her relationship with Rodney).

And the OTP still ended up together. It took a while, but they did. If a show with writing as crappy as Greys can do it, why can't we?

Yeah, that's the thing -- there are so many other ways to achieve your desired result. It isn't necessary to go for the cheap shots.
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[briarwood]

But she seems to be focusing on the good points, and assuming she can 'train' him out of the aspects she doesn't like.

See, right there, that's my problem. McKay doesn't have any good points. In SG-1 he treated sexual harassment as a sport and tried to kill Teal'c. He's not save-able.

Say, can't we kill him in some slow and painful way so John can have Liz?

[starwatcher307]

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Caarianna said it better than I could, in her other answer to you; Atlantis-Rodney is a better person than SG1-Rodney. But he's still abrasive, with a huge ego, and not everyone's cup of tea.

Say, can't we kill him in some slow and painful way so John can have Liz?

LOL! You can write it, but I don't think many people would read it. But, again, another character doesn't have to die to get two other characters together. There are Weir/Sheppard stories available; it's not an unknown pairing.
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[caarianna]

These are all really terrific ideas! You may soon find yourself tempted into writing SGA fic

[wneleh]

Sometimes, writers are working out some horror of their own lives. And some of us just have some pretty dark and twisted corridors in our minds and fanfic allows a safe outlet for darker imaginings.

Yeah, this is something to remember. Though is it a field (I was going to say continuum, but it doesn't seem just linear), with art at one end and therapy at the other and kinks to the left and whatever it is that makes car chases fun to the right? Or do some of us (I hope) just try harder to hide the daemons a story is helping us deal with?

[caarianna]

I think your analogy of the field is a good one. Now imagine it filled with market stalls, like a medieval fair ... everything under the sun. And that's pretty much what fanfic on the internet can be, something for everyone's taste. What some of us consider 'art', others might consider pretentious or too common and boring. What we might consider kink, others consider avant garde and honest. Some have more talent than others, some work harder to be good at their hobby, some want to tell a good story, some just want the sizzle. Some can separate the story from themselves better than others can, whether as writers or readers.

Having said all that, I feel as if the 'avant guarde' and 'honest', is becoming the commonplace, at least in LJ. Personally, I'm not enjoying it and I'm spending more time in the gen world again where there seems to be less emphasis upon our baser human foibles and more upon the best we can be.

[starwatcher307]

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These are all really terrific ideas! You may soon find yourself tempted into writing SGA fic.

Eh, as I told pat_k, I have ideas, but the characters aren't speaking to me the way Jim and Blair do. If I do, I certainly won't focus on Keller. I don't hate her, but I also have no interest in her -- TPTB haven't fleshed out character, and she's had no consistency at all.

However, sometimes the brutality is deliberate, to shake up the readers

And I wouldn't object to that; that's a valid technique. Jane Mailander's "Water Rises", for example. But, no, this author wasn't doing that.

Sometimes, writers are working out some horror of their own lives. And some of us just have some pretty dark and twisted corridors in our minds and fanfic allows a safe outlet for darker imaginings.

And those, too, feel valid to me. I may not like them -- won't read if it looks too dark -- but if it's a semi-balanced treatment of good/bad, an examination of 'what if', I won't quibble. But this story was none of that -- the fictional equivalent of

[luna_61]

ways we can disconnect Jennifer from Rodney
If I was contemplating a relationship with Rodney the one episode that would have scared me off would have been The Shrine.

Rodney is constantly calling and seeking out John and he gets this big sloppy happy smile when John acknowledges him. Saying I love you to Jennifer could have just been for all her kindness to him as his illness was progressing. What would happen if they started a relationship and whenever he gets sick Rodney is calling and searching for John.
That would hurt Jennifer and I do no think she would put up with it.

[starwatcher307]

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Yes, exactly. When person A is that focused on Person B, Person C is just fooling themself if they think they can have a sustainable relationship with person A. OTOH, some women people (it's not a sex-linked trait!) refuse to acknowledge what's right in front of them. And some people let 'maybe's outweigh their common sense.
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[sallymn]

They could just be incredibly, embarrassingly incompatible in bed.

Actually, that would be fun...

[starwatcher307]

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Hee! Yes, that would be fun. I couldn't write it, but it would be a hoot to read. I wonder if Caro D is an SGA fan...
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[sallymn]

Neither could I, but methinks there really should be more of it in fandom...