Comments | spn_heavymeta: 1x18 Something Wicked

phantomas in spn_heavymeta

1x18 Something Wicked - John Meta

Sep 27, 2006 20:41

Something Wicked it's the episode that definitely divides John Winchester's supporters from the fans thinking that he should be publically whipped and trashed for being an abusive, over-all sucky excuse for a father *G*

John in Something Wicked: the making of a warrior or the breaking of a son?

Dean: "Dad sent us here for a reason"

( wherein 'strega' is my spelling of choice )

1x18_something_wicked

Comments 15

usage note... tiferet September 27 2006, 20:07:16 UTC

I was not under the impression that the "shtriga" in Something Wicked was meant to be a "strega" which is not a monster, but rather the Italian word for "witch"--the Italian witchcraft traditions are very well documented, much more so than the British/Celtic ones, and would make a good episode in and of themselves, particularly the warfare between the streghe and the benandanti.

Re: usage note... phantomas September 27 2006, 21:21:31 UTC

The shtriga isn't a monster, it's exactly what it appears as in the episode, a soul(blood originally) sucking evil in woman form (at least as far as I've read/browsed around), that is, a witch/strega. The associated Christian involvement of 'streghe' with Demons and Satan came much later - traditionally, the benandanti phenomenon was set in Friuli, Italy, end of 1500-middle of 1600 (at least, as far as I've read around - I checked these as references ( ... )

Re: usage note... phantomas September 27 2006, 21:30:09 UTC

Forgot this, in English, more on the streghe and the stregoneria:

http://streghe.quickseek.com/

:D

astri13 September 27 2006, 20:22:29 UTC

Hi there. :) Very nice meaty meta.

Did John do well in not talking about the event with Dean later on?
No, he didn't.
He should have discussed it with his son, which wouldn't necessarily mean absolving him from his older brother/carer duties, but making sure, as a father should, that his own love for his son or respect or trust wasn't really in dscussion, and that even if there was disappointment in the moment, that disappointment wasn't forever lasting.

This is pretty much my personal breaking point in the episode. I can get behind everything else but this, since I see as having such a lasting negative snowball effect on Dean`s psyche ( ... )

phantomas September 27 2006, 21:35:13 UTC

I place the responsibility for that on the emotionally stronger aka the parent any time.

I agree. As much as Ilove John, and I do, as I wrote, he didn't do well at all in not talking to Dean. Why he didn't, I have no idea, just suppositions (he was ashamed/angry/ worried, what have you) but it doesn't change the fact that his not talking stood with Dean for 20 plus years.

I just can`t imagine he`d do that and not brief Dean about it beforehand.

Yep, exactly my point. Dean knew some things but not all, and I interpret John's behaviour with Sammy as that of someone that wouldn't use his kids as bait. Leave them alone for days, yes, being unable to communicate properly, absolutely, but not using them as baits :D

x5vale September 27 2006, 22:19:41 UTC

I pretty much agree with what you wrote. I think John was more pissed at himself than at Dean but he had to blame it on his son. I guess he couldn't have done anything different. He was scared and worried for Sam and his reaction was human.
Im my opinion the point is that John shouldn't have considered Dean only like a soldier or a big brother because he was a kid himself, a kid scared and with a great burden over his shoulders. John should have explained to Dean that it wasn't really his fault, but this probably would have meant to admit that he failed his sons that time and John wasn't alllowed to fail.He just couldn't.

Honestly my breaking point with John wasn't in Something Wicked, but in Devil's Trap.
I didn't like what he did in SW, but I could understand. I couldn't do the same after the last scene in Devil's Trap. I just can't forgive his lack of concern for his dying son...from the spoilers I read I could make up with him, till then I will suspend my judgment!

Did John's parenting skills make a warrior out of Dean (and Sam ( ... )

phantomas September 27 2006, 22:34:38 UTC

I'm a total John-girl, myself, but he's far from perfect. I really like what you say here:
John should have explained to Dean that it wasn't really his fault, but this probably would have meant to admit that he failed his sons that time and John wasn't allowed to fail.He just couldn't.Absolutely ( ... )

x5vale September 28 2006, 09:56:29 UTC

I'm not a John-girl but I'm not against him either.

Maybe you understood I'm a total Dean-girl!!!

Absolutely.
I think possibly John sees wee!Dean's failure as his own failure (which, it absolutely is!), and that might be part of why he doesn't say anything - that, and being a man, and being this tight, compressed ball full of fear and rage and anger, all of it channelled through hunting.
Exactly my point ;) That's why I wasn't pissed at him after SW ( ... )

phantomas September 28 2006, 10:19:30 UTC

He loves Dean, no doubt about that, only he is not able to understand what his son needs.

absolutely. I started out as a Dean-girl, btw ;) so, yes, poor boy, it breaks me that he loves his father so, and hurt as he is, he gets to listen to daddy rambling about sam not killing him/The Demon...(and Dean begging dad not to let the demon kill him? *dies all over again* no, really, if they had had him say 'please daddy' I would have EXPLODED on the spot and never recover. Anyway :)

(and heee, I'm Italian too ;) I'm in Rome right now, back to the UK next week - I'll be download and hopefully watching by Friday)

I think they could have chosen better, yes. I mean, the girl in Scarecrow had tons of chemistry with JA (in fact, they are going out now, lol), but Cassie's actress was really stiff.

:)

Thread 7

labellementeuse September 28 2006, 04:11:51 UTC

The concept of 'abusive father' for me includes... neglect, lack of proper care.

I don't think that John was an abusive father. Criminally neglectful and occasionally idiotic, maybe, but not abusive. However - you wouldn't define leaving two children under ten locked in a motel room for three days with nothing to eat but spaghetti-o's and cereal as neglect? And while this can't have been precisely regular - they must have gone to school, for example - it clearly wasn't unusual, either.

It's also, sorry, a totally fucking idiotic decision. No matter how responsible Dean is at ten, that is just... so dumb. I am the oldest of four and I was definitely home looking after the kids while my parents went out to the shops or something - for a couple of hours, during the day. I *know* that I couldn't have managed it for longer than that, and while, yeah, there's only one of Sammy and Dean's been totally overtrained... I still think there's only so much you can expect of a ten year old, and looking after their brother alone for three days is ( ... )

phantomas September 28 2006, 08:55:12 UTC

You make a really good point about the unreliable narrator, which I think John really suffers from in the show - he's in so few episodes, but he's such a huge influence in the show anyway that he's constantly being talked about, from the point of view of people who are, well, not exactly objective. So it's really doubtful how much we can know about John's behaviour towards his sons, IMO.Ah, yes, you managed to write it down exactly as I see it. Thank you ( ... )

aggiebell October 2 2006, 00:10:04 UTC

"It was your fault the shtriga got away, the lives of the children killed since are your responsibility, and your ten year old self is to blame for these children dying in the hospital right now."

I might be mistaken, but I don't think the shtriga actually killed any other kids after it got away. I only watched the episode the one time, but it hits town by town, and Dean said that it disappeared after that night and this was the first time they'd picked up its trail. The previous attacks had all been years apart also, and all of the kids in that town recovered.

To the original poster: I'd presumed that John was using them as bait, because they were in the town specifically for the shtriga, and if there was a mention of what John had left for I missed it.